The VAR Guy is in the market for a small office printer that supports Ubuntu Linux, Mac OS X and Windows XP. Alas, most PC companies do a lousy job describing which of their printers work with Ubuntu. Which means they’re leaving easy money on the table. Here’s our resident blogger’s sad story so far.
The VAR Guy owns a Dell PC running Ubuntu, so visiting Dell.com for printer advice was a natural first stop. But Linux printer info on that site was mostly anecdotal or non-existent. Sure, Linux insiders are quick to note that you can find a list of Linux-compatible printers at sites like http://www.linux-foundation.org/en/OpenPrinting and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupport/.
However, many of those online destinations fail to mention the latest printers and all-in-one multifunction devices. Or, they describe whether the printer works “perfectly,” mostly,” “partially” or not at all with Linux.
Sorry folks. That type of info won’t work for mass consumers. To the typical consumer, a printer is like a toaster or any other kitchen appliance. It either works or it doesn’t. Complex directions and workarounds to get a printer to “mostly” work with Linux may be fine for open source experts.
But it’s time for PC companies to take the next step. Dell, Hewlett-Packard and others need to start branding their printers as Linux compatible, to help The VAR Guy and thousands of other consumers make informed buying decisions.
Of course, a Linux-compatible logo for printers isn’t a new idea. The logo concept is one of the most popular discussions on Canonical’s Ubuntu Brainstorm site. And over on Dell’s IdeasStorm site, visitors are begging Dell to provide Linux drivers for all hardware.
Nice ideas. But The VAR Guy is ready to move now. He wants a multi-function network printer with WiFi, Ethernet, fax, copy, scan, color and black-and-white capabilities — today. And it has to work with Ubuntu, Mac OS X and Windows XP.
It’s time for the Linux industry to stop the chatter, and start testing/certifying Linux-compatible printers. Otherwise, The VAR Guy will wind up spending more of his money in the Apple Store, and less of it in the open source community.
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HP is providing drivers for their printers. I got a Photosmart C7280, and it works flawlessly with Ubuntu (and I think I saw Mac OS X drivers in the box). I blogged about it: http://blog.raphinou.com/2007/10/photosmart-c7280-my-new-printer.html
It’s true however that this compatibility isn’t advertised as it should…
Raph
Raph: A lengthy list of HP printers support Linux and Ubuntu. But as you point out, it’s time for HP and its rivals to actually communicate that support to potential customers.
can confirm the Photosmart C7280 does work perfect with
Mac OSX 10.5.2
Do you want a printer (and other hardware) which works with Linux, or which works with Ubuntu Linux? Because it would be nice to have it work with Linux, which would include Ubuntu. Because Ubuntu isn’t the only Linux out there.
You say: “To the typical consumer, a printer is like a toaster or any other kitchen appliance. It either works or it doesn’t. Complex directions and workarounds to get a printer to “mostly” work with Linux may be fine for open source experts.”
Well, I think designing operating systems, interfaces and services addressing dumb people’s needs is flawed.
A user who can’t understand OpenPrinting _shouldn’t_ use Linux. Linux is for sentient beings, looking for freedom and powerful tools.
Dell has a support page with a matrix of all their printers and OS’s supported…there are Linux printers listed, especially lasers, which would be perfect for business world…
http://support.dell.com//support/topics/global.aspx/support/dsn/en/document?c=pr&cs=prdhs1&dl=false&l=en&s=dhs&docid=5E83716B1A9646FFB7BF43C864AA84A8&doclang=en#1
God Bless
Doug
I have an HP printer that has worked flawlessly with all my Ubuntu boxes. It’s a photosmart 3210 all in one. The only item which does not work apparently is scanning transparencies but that has not been an issue for me as i have not needed that. Setting up the printer over a network was quick and easy with the HPLIP toolbox that comes with Ubuntu. Much easier than setting up the windows drivers.
I do agree that printer manufacturers need to advertise Linux support more.
Satchmo: You’ve pretty much summed up why Linux has not become a consumer desktop operating system for the masses … yet. Doesn’t everybody deserve software freedom?
With freedom comes responsibility, and indipendence. You can’t be free and assisted like a baby, too.
The “masses” are not a bunch of lazy and helpless people. Many people want to learn about their system, to have control over it, to make the most of it. That’s what freedom is all about, and that’s what people should see in free software. Not a cheap Mac.
Don’t understand. With my Vector linux I just get on Cups and install. What’s the problem?
I did a bit of research before buying my multifunction printer. Ended up going for an HP F4180. Not had any troubles with it at all and I’ve used it across Windows, SuSE, Ubuntu, Fedora and even a Mac. Congrats to HP for making the HPLIP, although they should advertise it more, but at least they’re doing something.
And the people who buy look for logos on boxes, don’t tend to be Linux users, I’ve worked in electronic retail for a while now, and trust me, Linux users don’t often wander into PCWorld.
Gordon: Fair points and thanks for the info. But The VAR Guy continues to insist that Linux logos on printer boxes will be needed, in order for Linux to reach a tipping point in the consumer market.
Linux logos on printer boxes will fail. At last some, and probably most if not all manufacturers will “certify” their printer by including a binary-only closed-source driver. Then what happens is that the printer stops working as soon as the computer is upgraded or a new security patch or library is released.
The printer manufacturers will thus rip-away one of Linux’s huge advantages, that the Linux distro does all the system integration for the end-user. Take this away and you remove Linux’s ease of maintenance, reliability, and long term stability. You return the end-user to the world of Microsoft Windows, where the user is expected to get random drivers from hither and yon, and coordinate themselves all the various requirements and version compatibilities. The lack of vendor supported system’s integration is why Microsoft Windows Machines all turn to muck, grind to a near halt, and have to have their disk wiped clean and re-installed every few years. (The only reason MS Windows systems work as well as they do is because Microsoft, and the typical end-user, do not upgrade or patch their software very often, if ever when it comes to the typical user.) The Linux user that sticks with the software provided by his distro will (for most distros) run for years and years with smooth software upgrades that give the user the power of the newest software on an ongoing basis.
At least at the beginning, the Linux user will be better off ignoring what the printer manufacturer has put on the outside of the box. Instead going to a Linux site and choosing an “always works” printer is the better decision, even if the end result means choosing a slightly older printer model.
Of course, the printer manufacturers _could_ just release their specs and/or work towards getting their drivers into the mainline Linux source. A certification reading “In Linus’s Kernel as of Version X.X.x” is exactly what the Linux consumer needs. But how likely is it that the corporations will have a clue, given that the Var Guy does not get it either?
Let me get this right - its linux’ fault that printer X won’t work with linux?
Who’s fault is it that a HP 1010 Laserjet wouldn’t work with Vista?
Who’s fault was it that when I upgraded from Windows 98 to XP on an old Toshiba laptop, the usb port wouldn’t work? (Puppy linux works just fine, so its still in use).
It seems to me that the “linux is no good for the average user because of lack of drivers” argument is redundant.
How much time, money & effort do developers of the first and third most widely used operating systems used spend on developing drivers for others’ hardware? Why pick purely on the second most popular?
Oops. Certifying against the kernel version won’t do, because printer drivers are not in the kernel. Duh. None the less, the remainder of my post remains illuminating and insightful.
Seriously, what the consumer needs to know is whether the printer is supported by foomatic, or whatever project it is that has the printer drivers.
Well, i think he’s right, i wnt more, i don’t want HCL which are out of date by 3 or 4 years, or devices tested on RH 5..
Why not, a stcker, a logo, a selling point!! Its a huge market, and i don’t care what anyone says.. Linux is growth..
So go on, Linux compatible stiker
As a recent convert, by necessity, from RISC-OS to Linux (Ubuntu) I have to say that things such as getting printers to work is a major stumbling block to Mr Average accepting Linux as mainstream. I’m no technophobe (software engineer, retired), but I happen to have 2 Lexmark X1270 printers for use in my business and getting any output is a nightmare, to the extent that I really dread trying to set it up again - last time, I got it to work, but something went wrong doing it (not reversable, as per XP) that caused me to end up with just a terminal prompt, i.e. no desktop at all. Though I manged to recover after hours of typing away, problems persisted and just got worse and worse until I had to re-install Ubuntu - and lost all my work in the process. Was I not in need of LedgerSMB, and pretty bloody minded about not using Vista/XP, I’d have thrown the towel in and gone to the Dark Side. Linux has a long way to go before Mr.(or Mrs.) Average will accept it, not least when Synaptic or apt come up with a huge list of packages it’s going to uninstall and you accidently click “ok” and your machine dies in front of your eyes - for a small busines that could very well spell ruin…..
Linux has an awful lot of major advantages, but it also has some huge gaps (printers for one, no “oops I didn’t mean that” when uninstalling for another) that render it a very risky venture for those who just want a computer as a tool and have no interest in what goes on under the bonnet. The days when I was happy to mess about to get things done are long gone, I have other interests now - computers are just tools to run the business, and that, I feel, is what the Linux community needs to focus on. When it does, Microsoft will have a problem.
Cheers
Richard
I recently installed a Xerox 3545? workcenter printer at church on Ubuntu 7.0x. About a 4 on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being bad 1 being brainless. Downloaded driver and installed . Then manually installed via add printer. Works great. Vista seems to have move to the Mac idea - hide / bury everything from the user. With Linux becoming more full featured / easy to use more and more people will use Linux. The more that use it the better support from manufactures will be.
Be Blessed
Tim
I’ve used Brother products extensively, and been pleased. My MFC-7820N (laser, wired network) installed easier under Ubuntu than it did under Windows. I recently added an MFC-885cw (color inkjet, scanner, fax, copier, wifi) and it all works with Ubuntu and Windows, though the Ubuntu drivers need some work. I know Apples are supported, but I don’t have any so I can’t say from personal experience. Brother seems to be making a good effort to put drivers out there for Linux (caveat: they’re proprietary drivers)
Personally, I’d love to see two different Linux logos for end-users to compare. One for proprietary drivers, and one for open-source drivers. This would give the consumer instant access to the relevant info, and give the manufacturers incentive to move toward open-source based upon comparative sales.
For example, a regular Tux logo, and a Tux sitting on the word “OPEN”.
In addition, this could carry forward into all types of hardware specs.
#20’s idea of having a non-open and an open Linux compat. logo is a very good one I feel.
However, my local highstreet computer store (Staples) already does prominently display those printers that are Linux compatible on their little info cards- at least this is the case for their laser printers but sadly not the inkjets. On top of that I know that I have seen Tux on certain printer manufacturers boxes and I now see the Tux logo or Linux mentioned on more and more computing accessories, such as the D-Link router I got recently and I see that many memory stcks and hard drives now proudly display their Linux compatibility.
Its not just me, the EEE PC is further accelerating this process and Linux is definitely getting SOME exposure in the comp. store now, at least here in the UK and I know that some people buying these add-ons are going to be intrigued about ‘this Linux thing’ but of course a lot more could be done.
@13
“Linux logos on printer boxes will fail. At last some, and probably most if not all manufacturers will “certify” their printer by including a binary-only closed-source driver. Then what happens is that the printer stops working as soon as the computer is upgraded or a new security patch or library is released.”
Lexmark did this a few years ago and of course all the problems you described occur. As many people point out pretty much all of the HP printer line is supported by the excellent HPLIP toolbox poduced by HP engineers but providing “unofficial” HP community suport. It is included in Ubuntu and a lot of distributions. The worst case scenario if your distribution doesn’t supply a binary is that you can compile it youself.
I enjoyed reading the above comments, I tried for a year SUSE 10.1 buying it in Australia when recommended by an engineer there later upgrading to 10.3 after problems with printing my HP 2750 3 in 1 would print over a cable no problems, but not over my XP network, and wifi forget it.
there were many things I liked about Linux the look, much of software etc. But not open office which fell short of Microsoft Office, nothing came close to Outlook and having lots of long classical disc’s Windows Media player still has no rivals, others may be OK for pop but are no use for me.
So I wiped the drive and reinstalled XP in a way I still miss Linux but it will have to get a lot more user friendly before I try again.
If you are looking to support a printer manufacturer that does list Linux (or at least some of the big distros), I would suggest you look at Samsung. They list Linux beside Windows and MacOS. I have one that works great with Linux (don’t know about Windows yet, but we just purchased one at work, so I will be able to test it under Windows shortly).
I do have to admit that their install process didn’t go exactly as described in the documentation; however, it was easy to work around.
HP has already been mentioned, but what about Samsung? I have seen an advert for a Samsung printer in a flyer that specifically mentioned Linux. See also this PDF on their web site:
http://www.samsung.com/my/products/printer/brochure/ML_2010.pdf
and these:
http://www.samsung.com/my/products/printer/monolasermfp/scx_4200xss.asp
http://www.samsung.com/he/products/printer/laserprinter/ml_2010.asp
http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/detail/features.do?group=printersmultifunction&type=printersmultifunction&subtype=monochromelaserprinters&model_cd=ML-2571N/XAA
Thanks to Doug Jenkins for pointing out the above url. A similar idea was submitted to Dell’s IdeaStorm about a month ago and progress is being made. Our Linux team is actively working on this and says,
“We’re working to add something like this to our linux.dell.com wiki. Much of this information exists today on Ubuntu, Fedora, openSUSE, Mandriva, etc. forums. We’re hoping to make a central place where this information exists, where customers can post much of this information themselves.”
Stay tuned for updates at
http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/62702?comment_id=10120888#comment10120888
Best regards,
APaxton
Channel Community Manager
Problem Printer makers have not woken up. There is now a all in one distro printer model at the Linux Standard Base. http://www.linux-foundation.org/en/OpenPrinting/WritingAndPackagingPrinterDrivers
So really you should not be asking for if a Printer supports X distro. But asking do you have LSB drivers. Its time to pester the hell out of them. Logo on box LSB version number supporting. 3.1 is the min. There is a LSB back port for 3.1.
oiaohm has the right idea. I own a computer consulting company, and many of the users I support don’t want to learn how to make this or that work, they just want it to work. VARs like HP, Samsung, Lexmark, etc don’t want to write drivers for every different Linux distro, they just want to write one. The problem I believe Linux has apealing to the masses, there is not allot of standardization between distros. I am not refering to standardization making all distros the same or using open standards. I am refering to the core functionality. For Linux to be accepted by the masses; massess being consumers, VARs, etc; Linux distros need to conform to a standard core. The extras each distro adds make the distro different.
In my opinion, Linux will only become the most popular OS, if the Linux disto developers develop their own standards for printer drivers, network drivers, video drivers, etc. Once standards are developed, the hardware manufacturers will know if they develop drivers to meet this standard it will work with all distros of Linux conforming to the same standard. This idea goes back to the old saying “United we stand divided we fall.”
These days, support means CUPS. I have an Epson Photo R220 and was, after a lot of digging, able to find suitable drivers for Linux (though it is still a paint to print DVD labels) - I run 64bit Centos 5.1 on a dual quad-core workstation. I agree with the consensus, that these printer manufacturers MUST start supporting Linux “out of the box”. These days, Microsludge isn’t the only game in town, and my next printer is likely to be one that provides robust Linux support, especially for the newer 64bit systems.
I have found every HP that I have hooked up to my Ubuntu laptop to print with no problems.
I agree about the manufacturers (not just printer manufacturers) need to add the Linux works with their product on the package.
I notice that ScanDisk® Flash drives have TUX on them and that they are compatable with Linux. Of course all flash drives are
probably compatable with Linux
I have found more and more hardware that will work with LInux, including the ADS Tech “instant Music” device that when I asked ADS they emphatically said it would NOT work with Linux. Well it does just fine using Audacity. Now if I can get the ADA DVD express to work.
I agree strongly with Richard (#17) and am in a similar position to him so his observations quote: ” Linux has an awful lot of major advantages, but it also has some huge gaps (printers for one, no “oops I didn’t mean that” when uninstalling for another) that render it a very risky venture for those who just want a computer as a tool and have no interest in what goes on under the bonnet. The days when I was happy to mess about to get things done are long gone, I have other interests now - computers are just tools to run the business, and that, I feel, is what the Linux community needs to focus on. When it does, Microsoft will have a problem.” fits me to a ‘Tee’.
The purists that believe that Linux should remain driven through the Console window with the graphical interface an after thought (including those needed for updates and add-ins etc) instead to being the main user interface with the operating system scare me. This approach is going to relegate the Linux platform to that similar to ‘Ham Radio’ where you need to be experienced at the ‘bare metal’ level to gain value from it. The masses won’t accept anything other than ‘point and shoot’. Giving them this capability for ALL there needs will result in product acceptance and in turn generate demand. It is this demand that will be it life.
Product manufactures that ignore the Linux community do so at their economic peril. They all need to get their acts together and invest in all the flavors of Linux out there.