A technology revolution started today. Most people don’t know about it. In fact, most folks won’t hear about today’s events for another five to seven years. But circle April 24, 2008 on your calendar. A decade from now, historians will say today was the day Ubuntu Linux reached its tipping point — especially on servers. Here are five reasons why.
After months of development, Canonical has delivered Ubuntu Linux 8.04. Before The VAR Guy hypes the operating system’s long-term prospects, he’ll concede Ubuntu’s short-term challenges.
Does The World Really Need Another Linux Distribution?
Ubuntu Linux is a niche solution. Sure, Dell pre-loads it on selected laptops and desktops. And Sun is backing Ubuntu on the server. But contrary to all the hype, Ubuntu has not gone “mainstream” — nor is it close to knocking off Windows in any type of market.
Ubuntu lacks distributors, integrators and VARs — the folks who recommend, service and support systems. Ubuntu also isn’t a big priority for many ISVs that focus on Novell and Red Hat Linux.
Alas, Ubuntu competes in a crowded market with well-funded, deeply entrenched rivals. Why the heck would Canonical — Ubuntu’s backer — want to compete with Apple, Microsoft, Red Hat and Novell? And why would The VAR Guy believe so deeply in Ubuntu?
The answer is rather simple: A series of critical vendor mistakes and inflection points have left the door wide open for Ubuntu to become a mainstream hit — on servers, desktops and mobile devices. It may take years. But it’s going to happen. Here are five reasons why.
1. The Windows Vista Debacle: Even Gartner finally admits that Vista is a dog and Windows is collapsing under its own weight. And in the ultimate statement, Dell actually began Ubuntu preloads on selected desktops the very year that Vista shipped.
No PC companies dared to take those types of actions when Windows 95 shipped. But Microsoft has badly miscalculated the market. Vista was big, bloated, slow and annoying when it arrived. Ubuntu Linux is fast, modular, tightly written and flexible. A few million desktop users have already discovered Ubuntu Linux’s power. Millions more will discover it through install fests, word of mouth, and Dell.
2. Miscalculations at Red Hat and Novell: Both Linux providers bet heavily on the server. Red Hat completely ignored the desktop for years. Novell had some success on corporate desktops, but continues to ignore consumer systems.
As Microsoft stumble on the desktop, Canonical was the rare Linux company that actually stepped forward and pursued a consumer-centric design that even The VAR Guy’s young kids quickly mastered in a few hours.
3. Server Consolidation: HP, IBM, Sun and Dell are already beating each other up with a range of Red Hat, Novell, Microsoft and Unix solutions.
Server vendors are now desperate to differentiate their wares. Most desperate of all is Sun, which dominated the dot-com boom with Solaris and SPARC. But Sun flamed out as customers balked at high prices and closed solutions, and switched to Windows or Linux on Intel.
Sun finally got serious about open source, acquired MySQL and began certifying its servers for Ubuntu. If Sun shows even moderate momentum with Ubuntu Linux servers, rival hardware makers will jump into the market. But don’t count on this happening over night.
Remember: Windows NT Advanced Server 3.1, Microsoft’s first real server operating system, arrived around 1993. But it took three to five years before NT became a server force. Microsoft spent billions on ISV relations to get NT Server going.
Canonical, in stark contrast, will need to continue rallying community developers and early adopters to the Ubuntu Server cause. This is going to take time, folks.
4. Software as a Service Meets Open Source: The trend is undeniable. More and more SaaS projects involve open source foundations.
Consider this simple, small example: The VAR Guy’s entire site is based on open source. It took less than five weeks to develop and launch, for a cost that was approximately one-tenth to one-twentieth the price of traditional online content management systems.
The power of SaaS and open source have gone mainstream. That means the market is moving in Ubuntu’s direction — assuming Canonical continues to line up ISV support for the OS.
5. Intel: The chip giant loves to hedge its bets. Despite close working relationships with Microsoft, Red Hat and Novell, Intel found the time and money to work closely with Ubuntu Linux, particularly on a mobile release.
Google Android and Apple iPhone get most of the mobile hype these days. But watch for Ubuntu Mobile to quietly find its way into devices soon.
Ultimately, Ubuntu will not be a desktop, server or mobile operating system. Instead, it will be a single platform that scales from mobile devices to departmental servers. Microsoft did that with Windows in the 1990s. And Novell is quick to state that SuSE Linux scales from desktops to the data center.
But in this case, simplicity matters. Ubuntu is pretty darn simple to master, even for a tired, middle-aged blogger like The VAR Guy.
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I disagreed so much with what you have stated, I wrote my own counterpoint blog about how the revolution will never happen.
Your enthusiasm and passion are to be commended but Ubuntu is pursuing a losing strategy.
Ubuntu is competing against Mac more than Windows as the second choice for desktop.
Ubuntu does not have any inherent advantage that makes it a better choice than Windows. Right now only Techies are drawn to the product but the consumer desktop doesn’t have a need in the market. If you don’t like Windows go with a Mac. If you don’t like either of those two, then go with Ubuntu. That is an extremely weak position to be in, attempting to defeat Apple and Microsoft without any clear competitive advantage.
Novell and Red Hat recognize this and have chosen to focus their efforts where Microsoft can’t easily compete, at the server level.
For my full rebuttal to the VAR Guy’s post, you can read it at gwbliss.blogspot.com
Richard, looking at http://www.novell.com/coolsolutions/author/918.html. I see that your affiliated with Novell. Just so that everyone knows. Novell happily considers itself and even describes itself as a Microsoft partner, which possibly makes it part of that self-serving channel or the Microsoft ecosystem. In simple terms, Novell pays Microsoft for SUSE. The more SUSE Novell sells, the more profit it passes on to Microsoft. It’s also in Novell’s SEC filings where this is stated quite clearly.
I find value in the VAR Guys’s comments, so don’t be astroturfing.
Linux has reached the tipping point, people are ignorant of it’s capabilities and need someone to guide them along. I have assisted with so many home users and some businesses from migrating away from Windows. I have no problems with MAC OSX, its far super then Windows. People are given choice in that regard, but Windows in general is NOT the shining star that it once was, its more a tarnish lump of coal.
“The VAR Guy’s entire site is based on open source. It took less than five weeks to develop and launch, for a cost that was approximately one-tenth to one-twentieth the price of traditional online content management systems.”
Would you be willing share information as to how to properly build a site that looks nice as yours? This is one aspect I am lacking in at the moment.
Thanks,
D.
“Ubuntu does not have any inherent advantage that makes it a better choice than Windows. Right now only Techies are drawn to the product but the consumer desktop doesn’t have a need in the market.”
This, I believe, is the mentality through which Microsoft owns its mental monopoly over the computing world. I have had Ubuntu installed for about a grand total of one week now, after having unfortunately been a Windows user almost my whole life, and I am far below what anyone would call a “techie.” I know nothing of programming or coding or UNIX or the economics of it all. All I know is that Ubuntu is most certainly not as complicated as people claim it to be. I find it just as simple (even more so in certain aspects) as MAC OSX and certainly faster and more reliable than any Windows platform, particularly Vista.
Aside from all that, however, the true selling point for me is the support available for Ubuntu users. Mostly from other Ubuntu users, help is out there for virtually any problem one would encounter, all at the click of a link.
Mac and Windows do a lot of advertising, but word of mouth is more than twice as effective.
I too am a long time Windows user and not a techie by any stretch of the imagination. Last summer I finally had enough with Vista and set up my machine to dual boot with Ubuntu. I absolutely love it. I’ll never go with Mac because I object to having a closed, proprietary system where I’m at the mercy of one single company.
I just upgraded to the lastest version and continue to love Ubuntu…as they say, it just works. The only time I boot to my Windows machine is if I need to run some software that isn’t available for Linux (such as Adobe Lightroom, Photoshop, neural network software, etc.).
I wish more companies would make software available for Linux, I know I’d gladly pay for proprietary software on Linux just to be able to escape having to ever use Windows again.
DOUGman: Thanks for the note and sorry, The VAR Guy can’t say more about how this site was built. He’s happy to brag a bit about the site, but doesn’t say much about the specific magic that occurs behind the curtains.
well i believe that windows is a dying os too many problems, security
risks and service packs due to the simple fact thay don’t care to fully test before releasing any windows software thay would rather dump it on the market and wait 6 months to a year and just collect bug reports and issue a service pack all the while your data is flapping in the breeze.
I have installed kubuntu KDE4 released yesterday and i do enjoy it’s ease of use and installation but i would like to point out that the best linux in my opnion would have to be linux mint and for anyone who has not heard of them you should know that it is based on ubuntu, but is a highly polished version that is even better than it’s parent ubuntu and is really starting to take off. Since i installed it i can honestly say that it is even easier to use than ubuntu and looks and feel a lot better.
Windows “dying”? If so, it will be a slow death. Microsoft still has 90 percent market share. And piles of cash. But The VAR Guy is happy to see true innovation and competition in the market.
A slow and painful death it may be but to say thay have 90% market share is a little high. At least you must admit in the home/desktop home/server market these figures are hard to really track i know a lot of people who buy new systems and rip out windows installs and go with a linux distro of there choice. main factor being that linux is way more secure and less prone to virus/maleware and let us not forget the business i am in of reselling older pc’s that run great with linux vs. windows. what about that market. we should not forget about that market.
DOUGman:
If you are interested in what VAR Guy is running, then view the source of this page. It isn’t too hard to figure out. As far as the custom theme, well take a look at the footer of the page and follow where that takes you. All publicly available information. Heck, you could run NMAP against this domain name to get some sense of the server OS, and services it is running. You could whois the domain name for more info. Do a DNS lookup and geographically try and locate the IP address. And so forth. All I am saying is that it is possible. Not sure my comment will make it your way though
Eric
Eric: I was thinking about viewing the source code when I had some free time tonight, I was never great at websites that’s why I was asking for pointer’s.
D.
Very good article.
But novell has an excellent linux desktop to enterprise workstation. The best I´ve seen to this target.
Just take a look to NLD.
Good luck, keep thinking and writing.
Javier Sola (Argentina)
DOUGman:
First off, I may have been a little in bad taste with some of the stuff I mentioned in the second half of my post. These things are not necessarily bad if you do not have malicious intent and do not do any harm. The port scan may be a little frowned upon though.
I will say though that looking at the HTML source of websites is very common, and am guess how many web developers helped understand the language. In fact, I think it was done this way to keep it all very open. Let’s just say this site runs on a popular open source blogging software package. But that is not enough. You need a good theme, and VAR Guy has pretty nice theme I would say.
Anyway, that “popular open source blogging software” runs on pretty much and server (windows, linux, *BSD, etc.) that can run a web server with PHP. So there are quite a bit of options there. But a big thing is yes, you would need to make it look nice, and unique might help in the branding as well. That takes a custom theme, or modifying something that has been made freely (as in speech) available.
Good luck to you.
Eric
Richard Bliss:
“Ubuntu does not have any inherent advantage that makes it a better choice than Windows. Right now only Techies are drawn to the product but the consumer desktop doesn’t have a need in the market.”
I think Ubuntu has a very clear advantage, cost! For the cost of a blank CD and a little bit of time, I can have a full-featured commercial quality operating system, full office suite, fully-functional applications that work now and will continue to work (no trial-ware posing as installed applications that cease functioning properly), a generally more-secure system with a lower possibility of viruses and other annoyances, and many other unmentioned things. I guess there are arguments that all those things are not as valuable as I see them, but I think they are valuable components to a lot of people. I believe that 90% of consumers of Windows could use Ubuntu out of the box, never needing anything specific that Windows has to offer (of course that is from my experience working with friends, family, colleagues, business users, etc., not a real survey).
Just for the record, I hate Windows with a passion. Also for the record, I agree with much of what has been written about the revolution of Linux and its entering the mainstream market.
My point, is that Ubuntu, pursuing a CONSUMER market, is facing a battle against Macs and Windows. I’m not saying that the Linux strategy is bad, it is their target market.
For Ubuntu to overthrow Microsoft, they first have to replace Apple Macs as the second choice.
Vista is making people unhappy. I refuse to deploy it. But it isn’t enough to push the market over to Ubuntu.
The true mainstream consumer market doesn’t have a blank CD and a little bit of time. They expect to buy the computer as a gift, give it to the person, they open it up and it works.
My point was not about the technology, it was about the about market forces that will not place Linux on the consumer desktop anytime soon.
Also, I’m not affiliated with Novell. I write on the forums and post to their blogs but they do not pay me.
I think the VAR Guy is correct in almost everything said. Just not in the idea that Ubuntu is pursing the correct strategy with their target market.
Ubuntu runs my whole business. PDF, Spreadsheets,all HP printers. Photo editing etc. No security or virus worries either. The Ubuntu revolution is coming -though it might take time. Ubuntu software package management is so superior to Red Hat- and Windows or Mac have nothing like it. Linux is ready and PC vendors are noticing.
Richard Bliss wrote:
“For Ubuntu to overthrow Microsoft, they first have to replace Apple Macs as the second choice.”
No. For Apple to overthrow Microsoft, they first have to replace Ubuntu as the second choice.
Everyone with a PC or a Mac can run Ubuntu. Anyone with a computer can try Ubuntu/Linux for free and continue to use it for as long as they like. This is an area where Microsoft and Mac can’t compete. (It’s not that they won’t go there. They can’t go there.) Ubuntu/Linux has the “free and use forever” market all to itself.
I routinely recommend to anyone purchasing a new computer that they put Ubuntu on their old machine and give it a try. Many people follow that advice and start using Ubuntu in their everyday computing environment.
The Mac user’s response to Ubuntu is “I can use it too!” That’s what Mac users have been saying for the past 25 years when confronted with technology. “Me too! I can do that on my Mac too. Look at me!”
When I demo Ubuntu to people (even with a LiveCD) the question I get asked the most is “Does it come with all that software?” When they ask about compatibility with Photoshop (or some other Windows-only app) I fire up Wine or I start Windows in a virtual machine. (Can you hear the Mac users? “Me too! I can do that too!”)
If someone is particularly interested in compatibility, I’ll start Windows in seamless mode with the Start bar docked at the bottom of my Ubuntu screen. Then I’ll proceed to use my Windows and Linux apps together at the same time, on the same desktop. (The Mac users seem to have gone silent…)
To an extent, I think it’s fair to say that technical people like and use Ubuntu/Linux. But it’s more correct to say that the people who answer questions for average computer users like, use, and recommend Ubuntu/Linux.
I read your blog Richard. I don’t understand how someone who seems to know so much about marketing and advertising could miss the simplest of facts about something they spend so much space discussing. Here they are:
1. Free products will be sampled by consumers.
2. If your product is better than the competition’s and consumers have been exposed to it, consumers will use your product. (Assuming there are no other barriers, like cost.)
It’s basic.
When you say things on your blog, like “[Ubuntu] will go along, always in the shadows, thinking its big break is just around the corner. But it will never come and one day it will be consumed by a much bigger vendor that focused and succeeded.” It just shows that you lack an understanding of open source software and the market in general.
1 major point that you have failed to mention is that IBM will bring out its next release of Notes that will support Ubuntu on both the desktop and also the Server. This must surly amount to one of the biggest votes of confidence in the product. Remember that IBM and Notes are not in the consumer market but firmly in the Corporate one.
Therefore IBM must believe that the time is right for Ubuntu on both the desktop and also the server.
I have to say the ability to install it using a CD/DVD and not have to switch totally over to it is just great. It has to be one of the slickest and quickest installations I have ever done.
I agree with pretty well everything that you have said about Ubuntu.
Nick: Notes on Ubuntu - yes, you are correct. That’s a major development. Nice point.
Random thoughts on the post and the comments threads:
As nice as the VARguy’s site is, doesn’t every open source tool he uses also run just fine on Windows, SUSE, Red Hat, Mac OS X and even Solaris? Linux in general and Ubuntu in particular aren’t necessary ingredients.
Other than the Debian based easier package acquisition and management, I’m hard pressed to see what makes an Ubuntu desktop experience any sweeter than SUSE Linux (Enterprise desktop or OpenSUSE.org). Being open source and all, I do wish SUSE made getting and maintaining apps as easy as Ubuntu. Otherwise there’s little difference and the “consumers” that are acquiring Linux at this stage in the market are about as well served by any major distro.
SUSE and Novell are simply choosing not to invest in marketing to or trying to do end user support for the consumer channel. Red Hat’s desktop efforts have not produced a distro for a non-technical end user to-date but SUSE has led the way in desktop innovation. Much of what makes Ubuntu 8.04 so appealing involved SUSE contributions.
Ubuntu mobile is a space where Novell and Red Hat are clearly not focused. Red Hat partners with Wind River for the embedded space but Montavista is the leader in the traditional embedded space. For mobile devices, it’s an open market that neither Google/Android or Ubuntu can claim yet. If I had to bet though, I’d bet on Google here. They can better monetize the mobile space and bring much more than an OS to the phone companies and carriers.
The growing functionality of mobile devices does seem to be a more available path to consumers than the share battle with MS and Apple from the desktop down so Ubuntu is right to try these waters.
Think there is a real consumer market for desktop Linux at this time? Asus’ Eee PC seems like evidence of such at the surface. Look at how much blogosphere space is consumed with thoughts about XP on Eee or how to get other distros to run on Eee though and you might think consumers don’t care about Linux being on Eee (can I get XP instead?) or that the consumers are still prosumers (can I get my favorite distro instead?). The Eee is also usually a 2nd (or nth) device for the user so it doesn’t matter what it (and Linux) cannot do - those things can wait til the user returns to the “main” machine that can do those other things.
Look, I run SUSE, Ubuntu, Windows XP and Mac OS X on my various laptops and desktops and I run SUSE and Novell Open Enterprise Server on my servers. They all work. 90% of the time, anything with a browser and basic office suite is all I need and the OS completely doesn’t matter. To the extent that I’m part consumer, ALL Linux distros have failed me in some way. Usually hardware support. Sometimes a critical application I needed. Doesn’t stop me from continuing to try to be all Linux all the time but that’s the non-consumer part of me.
To the consumer, first impressions count. Ever have your desktop configuration blow up when you tried to enable a graphics tablet on Linux? How about accepting a driver update and losing graphics altogether? Gone insane trying to get networking to work on one of the wireless chipsets that doesn’t have great Linux support? Gotten to April and realized Turbotax wasn’t going to run there? Needed Map Point and not wanted to search the ends of the earth for something similar on Linux? Alternatives often exists, the community tries to be pretty helpful and is remarkably supportive of newbies. Real consumers don’t even know what the community is and don’t want to have to interact with one to be able to do basic things.
You can quietly serve those that are willing and not spend much money trying to convince the rest to change their fundamental instincts or you can spend a ton of money trying to convert everyone. When you get right down to it and look beneath the words, Red Hat, SUSE and Ubuntu are all approaching this the same way. They’re also all trying to get pre-loaded. Unless you want to become a virtually vertically integrated company complete with hardware, it’s the most Apple-like way to remove some of the key obstacles and be more ready for desktop switching consumers.
It’s not the first and last time we read : Red Hat is plain wrong and Ubuntu will win.
Time will.
By the way, 2008 (like 2007) is the year of linux desktop.
As I’ve said many times elsewhere, Linux cannot use the model Microsoft used to dominate the market. That is because Microsoft has ALREADY used that model to dominate the market. That model is to become king on the desktop and then the server market.
Linux HAS to go the other way. And it is. Linux will come to dominate the server market. Then corporations will finally come to their senses and conclude that making Bill Gates the richest guy in the world isn’t an effective use of their capital.
So they will then also notice that their desktops would work better with their servers using the same standard protocols and APIs - not to mention little things like reliability, security, etc.
Then they will demand their suppliers provide them with Linux desktops. Their suppliers in turn will demand of their peripheral suppliers certified drivers. That will end the Linux hardware driver problem.
At that point, the developers will start developing the critical infrastructure corporations need to run their businesses on Linux. There already is a LOT of movement from the usual geek FOSS product development to business-supported development of FOSS critical business software.
Then, once corporate users are switched to Linux on their workstations, they will come to prefer Linux on their home systems.
No one can tell how long it will be before corporations get a clue about unifying their architectures around Linux. But there’s no a priori reason why it won’t happen.
But Linux cannot wait for its little one to three percent of the desktop market to expand far enough to take Windows out. That’s a chicken-and-egg situation. Windows developers will not develop for Linux because the market is too small. FOSS developers for the most part won’t develop the business critical apps corporations need on the desktop, unless they’re supported by corporations in doing so. So as long as the software isn’t there on the desktop to do the exact equivalents of PhotoShop, Adobe Premiere, ACT!, QuickBooks, etc., Linux is not going on the corporate desktop.
So it is the corporation that is going to have to drive the IT industry to Linux, rather than the reverse. And the key to that is both Linux on the server and the rise of “cloud software” that can weaken the grip of corporate desktop software.
Var guy…you said “DOUGman: Thanks for the note and sorry, The VAR Guy can’t say more about how this site was built. He’s happy to brag a bit about the site, but doesn’t say much about the specific magic that occurs behind the curtains.”
So wait you built this site on open source products, but now choose to close the curtain and remain proprietary? Not that I blame you, but doesn’t that seem like a double standard? What is your angle?
Regarding the comments above that mention the difficulty of using certain hardware or software on Ubuntu:
In Windows 3.11, getting to the internet was clunky, confusing and once accomplished, sped along at 14.4kbps. The payoff was great enough that some muddled their way through it. Now less than 20 years later our cell phones can even connect to the internet. Problem solved, and not just by Microsoft… my phone runs Java.
Windows 95 was not when released, nor did it ever become, a stable computing platform ready for market. Yet consumers found the lure of the internet strong enough that the payoff was worth the hassles, again.
In Windows 2000 Pro, most every consumer hardware product does NOT pass (pay for?) Microsoft Certification, and so we had to override the driver warning and install it anyway. Results varied. The payoff though, was a reasonably stable platform - worth the hassle.
Microsoft has cut its own throat with Vista. The hurdles one must overcome to use it are monumental in comparison to the gain vs. XP. Vista offers absolutely nothing of substantial value to account for its resource consumption or price tag.
This is an open door for Ubuntu and Linux in general. These hurdles one must face to use linux are small when you consider the OS is available free, customizable, and damned usable.
This revolution is already started. Just like in 1992 when I was setting jumpers for IRQ and DMA assignments, the techies “are there” first. But, software OSes are not the moon. My being there first does not mean I’m going to be the only one there forever. Goodbye, Microsoft - It was a hell of a run.
Does Ubuntu have that great an advantage over Fedora/RedHat? Much of what is in Ubuntu is in all Linux distros. The specific work that has been put into managing wireless networks on notebook computers was built by pepole at RedHat. Overall usability is do to the continued development of Gnome and KDE. To think RedHat is ignoring the desktop market is ignorant. Fedora is the desktop/fast paced branch of RedHat. RedHat continues to sell RedHat Enterprise for the desktop that is the slower moving target for companies.
The only advantage I see that Ubuntu has is the ability to select repositories that contain proprietary drivers. RedHat is choosing to solve this problem differently by aggressively supporting fully opensource drivers. For example, Fedora 9 will ship with the RadeonHD drivers. Of course people can add in the Livna repository for the commercial drivers for almost anything.
Mark @22: The VAR Guy loves good, open communication. But in this case, does he really need to reveal all of his secrets about how his site was built? After all, this site is his source of income … what little he has, that is, and the site components are a competitive advantage. Anyone who’s truly interested in the site components can check out comment @9, Eric for more clues.
Besides, the answers are all public info for the taking. Just choose an open content management system that supports third-party widgets, and you basically have all the software options you’ll ever need.
Ubuntu is pretty sad as a server. You can not find any well organized docs as you can w/Red Hat. Adding mobile OS is a smart thing. Mobile is where the future is.
Jeff wrote:
“Does Ubuntu have that great an advantage over Fedora/RedHat? Much of what is in Ubuntu is in all Linux distros.”
Much but not all. Ubuntu 8.04 comes with a Windows-based installer. You can now install and uninstall Ubuntu just like any other Windows program, from inside Windows. Anyone who can install software in Windows can now use Ubuntu.
Partitioning the drive is not required. The Ubuntu install is stored inside files in the Windows system. All you have to do is decide how much space you want to give Ubuntu and choose a password.
After it’s installed you’ll get a choice of which OS you want to boot at the next reboot. When you boot into Ubuntu you’ll be able to see all your Windows files and interact with them normally.
Ubuntu is the only distro I know of that makes installation this easy for new users.
Ubuntu’s restricted drivers manager makes it easier to install and use proprietary drivers.
I used Fedora for years before switching to Ubuntu. For me, it’s the little things that count. Adding the livna repo might be too big of a stumbling block to a brand new Linux user. Every time I upgraded to a new version of the OS I had to add livna again and reinstall my proprietary drivers. It wasn’t a huge problem, but it was an extra step. I used Fedora from version 4 to 6.
Other than the above, I agree with your post. There’s not much difference between Ubuntu and other distros.
Mike I am typing this through the Wubi installed 8.04 Desktop AMD64bit.
I think this is a great feature and one that might be adopted/adapted by other distros. It really does give you an idea of what it will be like when fully installed without going ‘all the way’.
I have been playing around with Linux for a few years and have not migrated totally to it yet. Trying to find the right distro is the main problem for me. I am even thinking now that maybe rolling your own is the best idea….
But for now I’m giving Ubuntu a try alongside with XP on this machine.
I play the odd game or 2 so need to get Wine up and running here.
Just installed the Nvidia drivers - like you say it was a breeze
I suggest those in the Redmond Monastery download a copy of Hardy Heron and rebadge it as a free new Windows operating system - let’s call it Windows 0804 - They’re allowed to charge as much as they like for it, provided they make the source code free, and they can shut down their whole coding, repair and support operation overnight. The Microsoft billions might just be enough to pay out all those made redundant.
Mike Wrote:
“Much but not all. Ubuntu 8.04 comes with a Windows-based installer. You can now install and uninstall Ubuntu just like any other Windows program, from inside Windows. Anyone who can install software in Windows can now use Ubuntu.”
This uses a loopback filesystem on NTFS. There used to be another filesystem that did this under linux called UMSDOS. I dunno if it was more or less sane that the loopback method. Both are a bit out there. The problem with the loopback method is that it does not work in all situations. For example, power management can screw it up. It is a cool feature, but it is not much more useful than USB flash drive installs. See Fedora’s plans:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/InstallFromWindows
“I used Fedora for years before switching to Ubuntu. For me, it’s the little things that count. Adding the livna repo might be too big of a stumbling block to a brand new Linux user. Every time I upgraded to a new version of the OS I had to add livna again and reinstall my proprietary drivers. It wasn’t a huge problem, but it was an extra step. I used Fedora from version 4 to 6.”
This happens automagically now. The .repo files go get the right repository based on the version number of the distro. Once it’s installed, it’s installed.
“The problem with the loopback method is that it does not work in all situations. For example, power management can screw it up.”
I think that’s why they disabled hibernate and suspend in Wubi.
“It is a cool feature, but it is not much more useful than USB flash drive installs.”
Sure it’s more useful. You can click a link on the Ubuntu download page and install it in Windows. That’s huge for ease of install. Compare the 2-step installation here:
http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/downloadmirrors (Wubi is at the very bottom of the page.)
With the LiveUSB installation process on the pendrivelinux.com site.
I’m glad that Fedora is going in the same direction, but they always seem to fall just a little bit short of the mark, in this case by requiring a “pre-partition.” If a potential user doesn’t mind partitioning the drive why wouldn’t they do a traditional Linux installation and be done with it?
Thanks for the info about Livna updates. I hated that, and the need to download ISO’s for upgrades to the new versions.
With Fedora 9 coming out, there will be a built-in resizer for NTFS partitions. I suspect that page might be slightly out of date.
Yes, the WUBI is an easy way to test out Linux. But so is a CD/DVD/USBLive distro. Once you are on board with Linux, it is important to setup a partition and get a real install. Most Linux distros make this process pretty easy.
For serious Linux users, it is not just about the installation, it is about management. Fedora was one of the earliest distros to install to LVM’s by default. It’s important to be able to move/grow/shrink Linux partitions easily.
As far as installation, I install Fedora using PXE using Anaconda’s kickstart. It is very automatic even when the hardware differs (thanks to good hardware detection).
Management is where things are going. This is where Fedora/RHL is really starting to shine. Once you have more than one Linux machine, you need to easily manage machines and accounts. Various distros have started to tackle the problem, but haven’t gone far enough. It appears that Free-IPA will finally do it. I figure Ubuntu and others will pick up on Free-IPA also. It’s a good idea and it’s been missing in Linux-land for too long. I’m not talking just about servers. I’m talking about notebooks. If Linux is to be serious on the desktop IT needs to be able to manage it or else it will never get out of the toy desktop stage.
Also check out ‘func’ at https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/func
Ubuntu Linux has a momentum like no other vendor or distro any time. Server its a real master pice and really usefull.
Why Ubuntu over Redhat?
I have been a Linux User since 1999. Started with RedHat 4 and Slackware 3. I used to try 10 or more distributions a year.
To get the system I like. I would download and install linux, use the package management system to install all of the goodies I expect. Then spend the next 2 or 3 days customer compiling all of the missing goodies and intergrating them into the system. Overcoming compile errors due to new libraries and new versions of gcc.
Ubuntu is the first distro that after installing all of the goodies in the repos. I only have to spend an hour or so compiling a handful of packages. Between the Ubuntu repos, debian repos and things like medibuntu and get-debi. It is pretty much all there.
The last time I tried Fedora it was cluncky and slow compared to Ubuntu. I was always having to custom compile and fix errors…or trying some .rpm not made for my system and hoping it would not create depenedancy hell.
The best help forums and IRC channels are Ubuntu’s. Even if you have a problem with another distro. Looking to Ubuntu forums is where you will probably find your answer.
Ubuntu-guides will give you almost everything you need to know for the perfect desktop that Ubuntu has left out.
The quickest way I know to Linux bliss is Ubuntu. (And I was a hardcore slacker)
Fred @34: Thanks for offering some perspective. Regardless of which Linux distribution readers choose, at least they truly have a choice in the matter.
The biggest weaknesses that I’ve seen with Linux in general is the lack of gaming support. Yes its true that some games have been ported to Linux and that some will run under wine, but to go out and buy the newest game fresh off the shelf and play it on Linux doesn’t seem to be much of a possibility in the near future.
Also, look at the video issues. If you have an ATI based card and decide to use the fglrx drivers, expect to take some time just to get it the way you want. Something that could be done in windows with a simple point and click operation, takes divine intervention to get to work in Linux. If you want to use a Dual Head video, you’re limited to having two nearly independent desktops except if you have an app opened on one you have to close it before opening it on the second, or you can use the “Big Desktop” option, as long as both monitors support the exact same resolution and refresh rate. So pretty much changing your desktop configuration on the fly like in windows is pretty much out.
Another issue is (fake) RAID arrays. While it is true that windows uses drivers to use this disks as a single drive, it works well. So far, I’ve had nothing but problems the second i install dmraid. Part of the problem is that Linux pretty much ignores the BIOS and if you have it on say a third hard drive, not even part of the array, when you install dmraid, it will overwrite the mbr of the first drive in the array, but it won’t allow you to boot from it. And since Linux ignores the BIOS, if you have a motherboard that has more than 1 fakeraid controller installled, yo have a 50/50 chance of it picking up the correct one, since it won’t actually let you choose which one to use. In order to triple boot with xp and Vista (both on a fakeraid-0, I had to install Ubuntu on a third drive and I had to install Easy BCD to be able to boot Ubuntu without having to hit F8 to change the boot device. I also had to install EXT3 drivers for Vista and XP as a means of moving files from windows to Ubuntu.
However, all that aside if you have a single monitor, no fakeraids nor any desire to play the latest greatest games, then Ubuntu is pretty easy. So far I have yet to see a live version of windows, one that is freely distributable, and one that can be installed or run from a usb pen. Ubuntu live from a USB pen drive runs roughly about the same speed as a full installation. Also, thanks to Synamptic, finding many of the apps you need is alot easier than it is in windows. Ubuntu also runs as fast or faster than XP on the same hardware, the same can’t be said about Vista. The fact that XP is approaching its end of life cycle leaves the potential for users to extend the useful life of their computers simply by switching to Linux, and with that, possibly Ubuntu.
@jj
“Ubuntu is pretty sad as a server. You can not find any well organized docs as you can w/Red Hat.”
Au contraire. Ubuntu is pretty fantastic as a server. At least for the limited scope of serving that I usually do, which is Web (i.e. LAMP).
As far as server docs, there is the Debian project to turn to for that, as Ubuntu is based on Debian. And Debian has nothing if not great docs. Google on “debian administration” if you are really unsure.
Ubuntu (and Debian) does do things “different” from Red Hat, and, if you are used to and familiar with RH’s server tools, you might be a bit uncomfortable with the way Debian does stuff and where Debian files are located by default, and the like.
But neither RH nor Debian and its progeny are really better or worse as servers.
For more on the rise of Ubuntu, and the challenges it faces, check out our The VAR Guy’s new sister site, http://www.workswithu.com.
Leon wrote:
“The biggest weaknesses that I’ve seen with Linux in general is the lack of gaming support. Yes its true that some games have been ported to Linux and that some will run under wine, but to go out and buy the newest game fresh off the shelf and play it on Linux doesn’t seem to be much of a possibility in the near future.”
Thanks to the DRM going into so many games now the same thing applies to Windows. I’ve gotten to the point where I only buy games for my consoles.