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	<title>Comments on: Microsoft Small Business Server 2008: The SQL Server Twist</title>
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	<link>http://www.thevarguy.com/2008/11/12/microsoft-small-business-server-2008-the-sql-server-twist/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 12:00:23 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: The VAR Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.thevarguy.com/2008/11/12/microsoft-small-business-server-2008-the-sql-server-twist/comment-page-1/#comment-107255</link>
		<dc:creator>The VAR Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 02:57:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thevarguy.com/2008/11/12/microsoft-small-business-server-2008-the-sql-server-twist/#comment-107255</guid>
		<description>Breaking the Wall: The VAR Guy&#039;s comment board is wide open for reader feedback like yours. But we do try to maintain a G-rated discussion. Got complaints? You&#039;re definitely free to share them here. Just watch the language. And The VAR Guy has to point out... there are plenty of happy SBS customers and VARs out there. Thanks for taking the time to write.
-TVG</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Breaking the Wall: The VAR Guy&#8217;s comment board is wide open for reader feedback like yours. But we do try to maintain a G-rated discussion. Got complaints? You&#8217;re definitely free to share them here. Just watch the language. And The VAR Guy has to point out&#8230; there are plenty of happy SBS customers and VARs out there. Thanks for taking the time to write.<br />
-TVG</p>
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		<title>By: Breaking The Wall With My Face</title>
		<link>http://www.thevarguy.com/2008/11/12/microsoft-small-business-server-2008-the-sql-server-twist/comment-page-1/#comment-107219</link>
		<dc:creator>Breaking The Wall With My Face</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 19:36:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thevarguy.com/2008/11/12/microsoft-small-business-server-2008-the-sql-server-twist/#comment-107219</guid>
		<description>We got suckered into buying a SBS server a few years ago.  We had and office that has to run some garbage software that required MSSQL.  With all of the licenses we would have had to buy to get things working under a real server the SBS server was far cheaper.   HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!  That was until we actually wanted to USE IT FOR SOMETHING.  The pile of crap INSISTS on taking over the whole network.  EVERYTHING is completely crippled and ass-backward.  You want interdomain trusts?  Nope.  You want to integrate with anything, ever?  Sorry, no can do.

If you want to try the SBS experience before you buy then you should do the following: get a server running Windows Server 2003 or whatever.  Modify all of the normal administrative interfaces so that instead of doing what they normally do they completely screw the machine sideways from Wednesday to the point where you just sit there saying &quot;I can&#039;t believe how much that screwed the machine up&quot;.  Then write a pathetic joke of an administrative interface that doesn&#039;t do anything that you want.  Then get a bear trap, carefully lower your testicles into the thing until you hear the SNAP.  Then weld the trap closed.

SBS server was designed with one goal in mind, to ensnare businesses and make escape almost impossible.  Every possible escape route that doesn&#039;t involve shelling out a pile of money to buy the server that should have been bought in the first place has been walled off.

DO NOT BUY THIS CRAP.  If your requirements are so simple that you can&#039;t administer your own AD server then you don&#039;t need the functionality that SBS supposedly provides.  If you do need these features then do yourself a favour and shell our the extra dough now instead of finding yourself completely pooched in a few years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We got suckered into buying a SBS server a few years ago.  We had and office that has to run some garbage software that required MSSQL.  With all of the licenses we would have had to buy to get things working under a real server the SBS server was far cheaper.   HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!  That was until we actually wanted to USE IT FOR SOMETHING.  The pile of crap INSISTS on taking over the whole network.  EVERYTHING is completely crippled and ass-backward.  You want interdomain trusts?  Nope.  You want to integrate with anything, ever?  Sorry, no can do.</p>
<p>If you want to try the SBS experience before you buy then you should do the following: get a server running Windows Server 2003 or whatever.  Modify all of the normal administrative interfaces so that instead of doing what they normally do they completely screw the machine sideways from Wednesday to the point where you just sit there saying &#8220;I can&#8217;t believe how much that screwed the machine up&#8221;.  Then write a pathetic joke of an administrative interface that doesn&#8217;t do anything that you want.  Then get a bear trap, carefully lower your testicles into the thing until you hear the SNAP.  Then weld the trap closed.</p>
<p>SBS server was designed with one goal in mind, to ensnare businesses and make escape almost impossible.  Every possible escape route that doesn&#8217;t involve shelling out a pile of money to buy the server that should have been bought in the first place has been walled off.</p>
<p>DO NOT BUY THIS CRAP.  If your requirements are so simple that you can&#8217;t administer your own AD server then you don&#8217;t need the functionality that SBS supposedly provides.  If you do need these features then do yourself a favour and shell our the extra dough now instead of finding yourself completely pooched in a few years.</p>
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		<title>By: WFTL Bytes! for Nov 13, 2008 : Give one get one, Google does stuff, MS vs Linux, Linux vs Linux, and strange things afoot. &#124; WFTL Bytes!</title>
		<link>http://www.thevarguy.com/2008/11/12/microsoft-small-business-server-2008-the-sql-server-twist/comment-page-1/#comment-99799</link>
		<dc:creator>WFTL Bytes! for Nov 13, 2008 : Give one get one, Google does stuff, MS vs Linux, Linux vs Linux, and strange things afoot. &#124; WFTL Bytes!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 08:55:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thevarguy.com/2008/11/12/microsoft-small-business-server-2008-the-sql-server-twist/#comment-99799</guid>
		<description>[...] MS releases SBS 2008; can Linux keep up? : http://www.thevarguy.com/2008/11/12/microsoft-small-business-server-2008... [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] MS releases SBS 2008; can Linux keep up? : <a href="http://www.thevarguy.com/2008/11/12/microsoft-small-business-server-2008.." rel="nofollow">http://www.thevarguy.com/2008/11/12/microsoft-small-business-server-2008..</a>. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://www.thevarguy.com/2008/11/12/microsoft-small-business-server-2008-the-sql-server-twist/comment-page-1/#comment-98829</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 22:26:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thevarguy.com/2008/11/12/microsoft-small-business-server-2008-the-sql-server-twist/#comment-98829</guid>
		<description>Edit to previous post.  The third sentence from the bottom should read: Remember Microsoft stole the show from Novell by monopolizing the desktop applications first, this opened up the back office for them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Edit to previous post.  The third sentence from the bottom should read: Remember Microsoft stole the show from Novell by monopolizing the desktop applications first, this opened up the back office for them.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://www.thevarguy.com/2008/11/12/microsoft-small-business-server-2008-the-sql-server-twist/comment-page-1/#comment-98828</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 22:23:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thevarguy.com/2008/11/12/microsoft-small-business-server-2008-the-sql-server-twist/#comment-98828</guid>
		<description>I think when get in the FOSS vs. MS battle, one very, very important thing is left out of these arguments:  in existing businesses, applications drive the back office.  The back office does not drive the applications.  To explain this a little more clearly:  if company has an application that is of any strategic importance to their business and it integrates with Exchange, AD, MS SQL or any other MS specific technology, then that dictates what they put in the back office.  Today, if an application offers integration with a platform, it is almost always going to be MS.  15 years ago, it was Novell (NDS).  So, as a consultant, is also important for me to look at the industry any given one of my clients work in and think about what applications that may want to run in the near future.  If those solutions also appear to be MS centric than the choice is easy.  If they don&#039;t appear to now or in the near future have a need to integration with MS tools and technology, then I&#039;m happy to recommend of the many FOSS options available today.  I have never (and I mean ever) met a client, after having the pros and cons explained clearly to them, that was willing to save a few thousand dollars at the expense of running the best application (client, not server) for the job or limiting future options.  Remember Microsoft stole the show from Microsoft by monopolizing the desktop applications first, this opened up the back office for them.  Good or bad, it&#039;s reality.  And when it comes to giving my customers the honest truth, I give them reality every time not my idealistic opinions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think when get in the FOSS vs. MS battle, one very, very important thing is left out of these arguments:  in existing businesses, applications drive the back office.  The back office does not drive the applications.  To explain this a little more clearly:  if company has an application that is of any strategic importance to their business and it integrates with Exchange, AD, MS SQL or any other MS specific technology, then that dictates what they put in the back office.  Today, if an application offers integration with a platform, it is almost always going to be MS.  15 years ago, it was Novell (NDS).  So, as a consultant, is also important for me to look at the industry any given one of my clients work in and think about what applications that may want to run in the near future.  If those solutions also appear to be MS centric than the choice is easy.  If they don&#8217;t appear to now or in the near future have a need to integration with MS tools and technology, then I&#8217;m happy to recommend of the many FOSS options available today.  I have never (and I mean ever) met a client, after having the pros and cons explained clearly to them, that was willing to save a few thousand dollars at the expense of running the best application (client, not server) for the job or limiting future options.  Remember Microsoft stole the show from Microsoft by monopolizing the desktop applications first, this opened up the back office for them.  Good or bad, it&#8217;s reality.  And when it comes to giving my customers the honest truth, I give them reality every time not my idealistic opinions.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://www.thevarguy.com/2008/11/12/microsoft-small-business-server-2008-the-sql-server-twist/comment-page-1/#comment-97264</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 21:28:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thevarguy.com/2008/11/12/microsoft-small-business-server-2008-the-sql-server-twist/#comment-97264</guid>
		<description>What everyone here seems to forget is that you run software for a purpose ... to support a business. I run MS software because it does what it should, it is supported by a central organisation and when properly configured it is solid. I COULD spend time learning, configuring and installing some free and brilliant linux variant. I COULD then spend hours figuring out how to make it work with another undoubtably excellent and cost free application but as the admin for a small company I have better things to do with my time. MS allow me to get things done simply and effectively and support my users in a professional, unadventurous way, allowing them to get on with what pays my wages.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What everyone here seems to forget is that you run software for a purpose &#8230; to support a business. I run MS software because it does what it should, it is supported by a central organisation and when properly configured it is solid. I COULD spend time learning, configuring and installing some free and brilliant linux variant. I COULD then spend hours figuring out how to make it work with another undoubtably excellent and cost free application but as the admin for a small company I have better things to do with my time. MS allow me to get things done simply and effectively and support my users in a professional, unadventurous way, allowing them to get on with what pays my wages.</p>
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		<title>By: The VAR Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.thevarguy.com/2008/11/12/microsoft-small-business-server-2008-the-sql-server-twist/comment-page-1/#comment-96162</link>
		<dc:creator>The VAR Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 22:12:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thevarguy.com/2008/11/12/microsoft-small-business-server-2008-the-sql-server-twist/#comment-96162</guid>
		<description>Chris de Vidal: Take a look at what &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.jumpbox.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Jumpbox&lt;/a&gt; is doing. Basically leaping beyond on-premise and pushing applications up into the cloud.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris de Vidal: Take a look at what <a href="http://www.jumpbox.com" rel="nofollow">Jumpbox</a> is doing. Basically leaping beyond on-premise and pushing applications up into the cloud.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris de Vidal</title>
		<link>http://www.thevarguy.com/2008/11/12/microsoft-small-business-server-2008-the-sql-server-twist/comment-page-1/#comment-96154</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris de Vidal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 13:26:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thevarguy.com/2008/11/12/microsoft-small-business-server-2008-the-sql-server-twist/#comment-96154</guid>
		<description>Two concerns:
1.) If I hustle, I could get it right, stable and clean within a year.  Will SaaS be well-established quick enough to kill my chances of success?  Or would I have 5 good years of success?

What do you think?

2.) I can add more features than Microsoft and also beat them on up-front cost, so my three advantages will be initial cost, no vendor lock-in and features.  My one big disadvantage will be a lack of trust from small businesses.

So what concerns me is if I start hurting MS&#039;s sales, will they just add more features and lower their up-front cost and thereby nail me because they are more trusted?  They easily could.

What do you think?

I suppose I could gain trust by doing the integration on an established platform like CentOS or Ubuntu and then partnering with them, making my SBS an extension of CentOS/Ubuntu.  What do you think?  I would want to avoid partnering with RedHat because then we&#039;re back to the initial cost disadvantage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two concerns:<br />
1.) If I hustle, I could get it right, stable and clean within a year.  Will SaaS be well-established quick enough to kill my chances of success?  Or would I have 5 good years of success?</p>
<p>What do you think?</p>
<p>2.) I can add more features than Microsoft and also beat them on up-front cost, so my three advantages will be initial cost, no vendor lock-in and features.  My one big disadvantage will be a lack of trust from small businesses.</p>
<p>So what concerns me is if I start hurting MS&#8217;s sales, will they just add more features and lower their up-front cost and thereby nail me because they are more trusted?  They easily could.</p>
<p>What do you think?</p>
<p>I suppose I could gain trust by doing the integration on an established platform like CentOS or Ubuntu and then partnering with them, making my SBS an extension of CentOS/Ubuntu.  What do you think?  I would want to avoid partnering with RedHat because then we&#8217;re back to the initial cost disadvantage.</p>
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		<title>By: The VAR Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.thevarguy.com/2008/11/12/microsoft-small-business-server-2008-the-sql-server-twist/comment-page-1/#comment-96141</link>
		<dc:creator>The VAR Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 04:34:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thevarguy.com/2008/11/12/microsoft-small-business-server-2008-the-sql-server-twist/#comment-96141</guid>
		<description>Chris: Your voice has been heard. Let us know if/when you move forward with your SBS alternative efforts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris: Your voice has been heard. Let us know if/when you move forward with your SBS alternative efforts.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris de Vidal</title>
		<link>http://www.thevarguy.com/2008/11/12/microsoft-small-business-server-2008-the-sql-server-twist/comment-page-1/#comment-96140</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris de Vidal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 04:25:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thevarguy.com/2008/11/12/microsoft-small-business-server-2008-the-sql-server-twist/#comment-96140</guid>
		<description>This is an old post and my reply here may not be seen by anyone, but I hear the complaints and I recognize why SBS is so popular, even at more expense and with vendor lock-in: They know marketing, and they know (pretty well) how to smooth out rough edges and integrate.

That said, it has inspired me to integrate and smooth out rough edges and create a SBS with more products than anyone else has used before.  I&#039;m talking firewall, router, monitoring systems, email, calendar, file server, database, directory services, terminal services, remote access, SSL browser-based VPN, a CRM, an ERP, etc.  I&#039;m talking dozens of apps.  Scalability, security and ease of management would be top priorities.

I would create a TOTALLY FREE Small Business Server.  I would sell support/consulting.  This way, small IT shops such as Troy at his Christian radio station can manage dozens, even hundreds of end users for free.  If he needs support, he knows he can just pick up a phone.

This won&#039;t be easy, but I think I know how to do it.  I&#039;ll need to study a lot and learn project management and recruit some good programmers, but I think I can do it.  I&#039;m still thinking and praying about whether I should take this on (it&#039;d be ambitious and I have a growing family), but I believe there&#039;s a market in the next few years before SaaS really gets hot.

So, if I decide not to do this, someone else needs to take up the banner.  Get inspired by looking at the usability and integration level of something like Untangle or OpenFiler or IPcop.  Then start thinking bigger; add in many, many more services, as many as a small business would need.  Glue it all together with a seamless web interface.  Make sure it is secure and scalable.  Hide many options from the admin, but still ensure that your glue scripts respect any manual changes made from the commandline.  Hire tier 1 and 2 support staff.  Test it with users.  Start marketing it.  You&#039;ll need usability testing, programmers, infrastructure, technical support and other small business staff.  Shoot, you could even run the whole business on your server, so that you A.) eat your own dog food and B.) work out any kinks that customers would see.

Integration, smoothing out the rough edges, a &quot;kitchen sink&quot; mentality, free to the community, more applications than any other solution.  I think you&#039;d have a winner.  Linux has the potential to be a winner in this category.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an old post and my reply here may not be seen by anyone, but I hear the complaints and I recognize why SBS is so popular, even at more expense and with vendor lock-in: They know marketing, and they know (pretty well) how to smooth out rough edges and integrate.</p>
<p>That said, it has inspired me to integrate and smooth out rough edges and create a SBS with more products than anyone else has used before.  I&#8217;m talking firewall, router, monitoring systems, email, calendar, file server, database, directory services, terminal services, remote access, SSL browser-based VPN, a CRM, an ERP, etc.  I&#8217;m talking dozens of apps.  Scalability, security and ease of management would be top priorities.</p>
<p>I would create a TOTALLY FREE Small Business Server.  I would sell support/consulting.  This way, small IT shops such as Troy at his Christian radio station can manage dozens, even hundreds of end users for free.  If he needs support, he knows he can just pick up a phone.</p>
<p>This won&#8217;t be easy, but I think I know how to do it.  I&#8217;ll need to study a lot and learn project management and recruit some good programmers, but I think I can do it.  I&#8217;m still thinking and praying about whether I should take this on (it&#8217;d be ambitious and I have a growing family), but I believe there&#8217;s a market in the next few years before SaaS really gets hot.</p>
<p>So, if I decide not to do this, someone else needs to take up the banner.  Get inspired by looking at the usability and integration level of something like Untangle or OpenFiler or IPcop.  Then start thinking bigger; add in many, many more services, as many as a small business would need.  Glue it all together with a seamless web interface.  Make sure it is secure and scalable.  Hide many options from the admin, but still ensure that your glue scripts respect any manual changes made from the commandline.  Hire tier 1 and 2 support staff.  Test it with users.  Start marketing it.  You&#8217;ll need usability testing, programmers, infrastructure, technical support and other small business staff.  Shoot, you could even run the whole business on your server, so that you A.) eat your own dog food and B.) work out any kinks that customers would see.</p>
<p>Integration, smoothing out the rough edges, a &#8220;kitchen sink&#8221; mentality, free to the community, more applications than any other solution.  I think you&#8217;d have a winner.  Linux has the potential to be a winner in this category.</p>
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		<title>By: Socceroos</title>
		<link>http://www.thevarguy.com/2008/11/12/microsoft-small-business-server-2008-the-sql-server-twist/comment-page-1/#comment-84545</link>
		<dc:creator>Socceroos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 01:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thevarguy.com/2008/11/12/microsoft-small-business-server-2008-the-sql-server-twist/#comment-84545</guid>
		<description>I guess it may be hard for people who have only ever used or deployed proprietary solutions to really understand what &#039;crippled&#039; means.

I see The Var Guy&#039;s point about Microsoft&#039;s well thought out packages and price points. But when you stack this up against a solution that does the same thing - for free - and has none of the restrictions of the proprietary one, making it completely scalable to your company&#039;s/situations needs, then (for me at least) it doesn&#039;t make sense to lock myself into a vicious money-spending cycle that is eating away at my already slim margins.

This is why I feel it is important for Canonical to start getting together and marketing a &#039;comparable&#039; package for SMB&#039;s. All the great technology is there, it all works like a dream. But it needs to be marketed/delivered properly before a lot of proprietary minded people realise what it can do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess it may be hard for people who have only ever used or deployed proprietary solutions to really understand what &#8216;crippled&#8217; means.</p>
<p>I see The Var Guy&#8217;s point about Microsoft&#8217;s well thought out packages and price points. But when you stack this up against a solution that does the same thing &#8211; for free &#8211; and has none of the restrictions of the proprietary one, making it completely scalable to your company&#8217;s/situations needs, then (for me at least) it doesn&#8217;t make sense to lock myself into a vicious money-spending cycle that is eating away at my already slim margins.</p>
<p>This is why I feel it is important for Canonical to start getting together and marketing a &#8216;comparable&#8217; package for SMB&#8217;s. All the great technology is there, it all works like a dream. But it needs to be marketed/delivered properly before a lot of proprietary minded people realise what it can do.</p>
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		<title>By: Socceroos</title>
		<link>http://www.thevarguy.com/2008/11/12/microsoft-small-business-server-2008-the-sql-server-twist/comment-page-1/#comment-84543</link>
		<dc:creator>Socceroos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 00:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thevarguy.com/2008/11/12/microsoft-small-business-server-2008-the-sql-server-twist/#comment-84543</guid>
		<description>@Wayne Small:

Not crippled?

&quot;In fact they upgraded it from SQL 2005 Workgroup Edition to SQL 2008 Standard Edition in recognition of the fact that SMB clients need more features from their SQL.&quot;

I had to chuckle - the proof is in the pudding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Wayne Small:</p>
<p>Not crippled?</p>
<p>&#8220;In fact they upgraded it from SQL 2005 Workgroup Edition to SQL 2008 Standard Edition in recognition of the fact that SMB clients need more features from their SQL.&#8221;</p>
<p>I had to chuckle &#8211; the proof is in the pudding.</p>
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