Ubuntu is way easier to install than certain other operating systems. But it would be even greater if I could select which applications I wanted on my new system before the Ubiquity installer goes about its business–an idea that was proposed recently on Ubuntu Brainstorm. Here’s why it should go through.
An Ubuntu installation requires two or three minutes of a user’s time configuring the setup, followed by about a half-hour for the system to be installed. That’s not bad at all, especially compared to other operating-system installers that stupidly compel you to sit in front of the screen throughout the whole process rather than asking everything upfront.
After installing Ubuntu for my own use, however, I generally spend another half-hour adding and removing applications to fit my liking. Multimedia codecs need to downloaded, applications like VirtualBox need to be installed and stuff I won’t use needs to be gotten rid of.
What would be great is if the application stack could be customized before installation, in order to save me and my computer the trouble of installing programs that I’m going to remove manually later on. That’s precisely what a user named nhandler envisions on Ubuntu Brainstorm, where a mock-up of a configuration utility has been uploaded:
Granted, this may not be the most professional-looking (or grammatically sound) interface, but it’s a start, and provides an idea of the kind of functionality that would be a great addition to Ubiquity. Being able to customize default applications and install non-free software along with the rest of the system would save a lot of time.
In defense of the idea
Not everyone agrees that an addition to the Ubuntu installer such as this would be in the best interests of the end user. For example, d0od of OMG! Ubuntu! argues that it would turn new users off to Ubuntu by confusing them with options they don’t understand.
I agree that non-geeks shouldn’t be exposed to stuff like this. But no one says it has to be an obligatory part of the installation process. It could be hidden behind an “Advanced” button with adequate warnings telling people to stay away if they don’t know what they’re doing. There’s no harm in that.
Others complain that Windows and OS X don’t provide options like this at installation time (although some other Linux distributions do), so Ubuntu shouldn’t either.
The obvious response to that reasoning, I think, is that proprietary operating systems don’t allow users to customize their application stack because in most cases, the alternatives to the default choices are third-party products. Obviously Microsoft and Apple are not going to make it easier to replace Internet Explorer or Safari with Firefox or Chrome. Where’s the monopoly in that?
In fairness…
Of course, there are some valid criticisms of a proposal like this. Above all, it assumes that everyone has a high-speed, wired Internet connection available–or that the Ubuntu installer would start supporting wireless networking, which would almost certainly end in a huge fiasco if attempted–which is far from true.
Issues are also bound to arise if Ubiquity allowed users to install non-free software, especially because some of that code is of dubious legality in certain jurisdictions. It’s already easy enough to install these packages from within Ubuntu itself, but offering them as a preinstallation choice would raise the ire of free-software advocates, and possibly some lawyers.
All the same, despite its limitations, this idea has merit. After all, plenty of other Linux installers already offer functionality similar to that proposed on Ubuntu Brainstorm, and have done so for years. I’d love to see Ubiquity follow suit.
The proposal has no merit.
A huge part of Ubuntu’s early success was the simplicity of the installer, for which much blood and sweat was exchanged. I cannot emphasise enough how much work was invested in fairly deep system changes to ensure that the install was a top-notch, no-nonsense experience. Remember how controversial “no root, only sudo” was?
The install experience was simplified again when the most common method was shifted to the LiveCD. Try it, love it, install it.
Bring up a kickarse system with opinionated defaults and very little hassle, then let users have the luxury of every tool available to customise their experience.
Simplicity is at the heart of Ubuntu’s success. It is worth being stubborn about it, to avoid the slippery slope of unnecessary complexity.
Quite frankly, I always hoped for an easy to use, graphical, network based installer that would give you the option to choose an official flavor:
* Gnome edition (Ubuntu)
* KDE edition (Kubuntu)
* XFCE
* LXDE
If things were done that way, you would have something modular to start with, and the user could optionally mix and match software as in the mockup above.
Cheers!
@Jeff: I agree though with your main point, so the installer I am proposing would be a dedicated network installer.
Installing distribution should be with the least number of steps, But this should be good as after installation solution. The current solution in Ubuntu that changes default applications is very stripped, and the one in Ubuntu Tweak is too much. so something like this in the System Preferences would be good.
Frankly after many many installs I am now tending to agree with you and to an advanced tab to select what programmes you would like would be a nice touch. However I can understand the issues people raise about making it a little more complicated.
The choice though would be nice to have there to choose what goes on. I would think it would save me the ‘after install ‘ period where I need (in Kubuntu)to stick Firefox and all the missing bits and pieces on. That being said now the new installs have made all of that very easy with the firefox installer and amarok one hit for setting up setting up mp3 codecs.
I think in summary considering what microsoft have been forced to offer with their browser choice we should try to be ahead of them , every step of the way
Andy
[...] vista en workswithU y si bien está en Inglés, es entendible y recomiendo lean los argumentos y [...]
Re: Leo and his mentioning of various desktop environments during the install, is something I have mentioned before to a few people. Just create one CD/DVD, the disk specs the machine and recommends the following options all the while explaining itself the the customer. More options equates more freedom!
D.
I partially approve the proposal.
I think that idea is good, but NOT in the installer.
Maybe a Welcome Screen, displayed only on first boot, introducing the OS and giving some ‘Advanced…’ options upon user request (via usual button).
This way as the same effect as entering in the Software Center and removing unused/unwanted apps and installs own preferred alternatives.
Would be kind if in the combo there is an option ‘Not needed’ that removes the application.
I.ex. Video editing program: not needed.
Same functionality, but less intrusive. Not?
Great idea!
For me is not an impotant idea.From the new ubuntu I want speed stability and compatibility.I want better network manager,better audio management.Who cares for this,it’s so simple to add/remove an app and I think the defaults are the right for now.
Why not three catagories to choose from. New user with a default install. Experienced user with options. Expert user with all options displayed. That should end the possible confusion for a newbie. Everybody else can find their way easy enough.
I have a shell script to install all the programs I want so this is not a big deal to me.
If they did include the option I’d like a way to pull a config file from the web some how.
[...] Customizing the Ubuntu Application Stack Before Installation Ubuntu is way easier to install than certain other operating systems. But it would be even greater if I could select which applications I wanted on my new system before the Ubiquity installer goes about its business–an idea that was proposed recently on Ubuntu Brainstorm. Here’s why it should go through. [...]
No matter how you try to compromise or appease the Ubuntu purists. They will not do anything that jeopardizes newbie friendliness. Its like a broken record with them. we don’t want to confuse new users, heres a hundred bash commands to do what you want. So newbies are safe, experts can navigate just about any distro you give them, and us novice/intermediate users are left in the cold. Its not surprising you see so many saying that Ubuntu is good for beginners, but I use now.
Good Idea !!!
One of the things I like about Linux is generally it can be customized more than the Mac or Windows. Choice is one reason I use the Opera browser. So in principle, I love the idea of the custom install.
But in practice, I know Jeff Waugh is right. If you want more more users, keep it simple. That’s the number one lesson Apple taught the computing world.
Much as I love Opera, I wouldn’t recommend it to certain friends because I know they would suffer loss of bowel-and-bladder control if, for example, they accidentally held down the plus or minus key. And that’s only a browser!
Out of a gazillion Linux distros, surely we can have one where simplicity rules.
The idea sounds really good on the surface but then you run into many issues. The first is that simplicity is good. Simplicity, especially for new users, is a key for success. The more advanced users know what they want and how to get it anyway. I think that space would also be an issue on a live cd (I don’t think downloads would be a good option due to the number of laptops Ubuntu is installed on and the need to have wireless working). Ubuntu would have to move to a DVD and also greatly increase the download size. The download size is not a big deal for some but is for others. Over all I think it is hard to improve much on the installer of Ubuntu. The Ubuntu installer takes a relatively complicated process of installing an operating system and many times making that operating system co-exist with other operating systems and it makes it all happen in just a few clicks.
Totally agree with you: hiding it behind an ‘Advanced software selection’ or whatever would save advanced users a lot of time (for example: i too prefer thunderbird, etc).
About allowing the user to choose: have you seen what will happen to win7 in europe? http://blogs.zdnet.com/gadgetreviews/?p=12360 This is probably happening in the rest of the world and imo it would affect Apple too. So, why not make ubuntu ahead of this discussion and make it easier to users who customize their apps?
I see no reason as to why this can’t be tucked away behind and “Custom Install” button the same way the hard drive partitioning options are set up.
Those who wish to customise can do so and those who just click “next” every time they see it on a button can do that too.
Eh, I tend to be most sympathetic to the simplicity and average end-user concerns. That’s how Ubuntu will win. There is already some web-based option (I forgot right now what it is – Lifehacker covered it a while back) that allows advanced users to do “remember” their preferred software configuration and reinstall that automagically on a fresh system install. That’s basically my position: advanced users can already find the advanced tools to do what they want to do. And, really, if we’re talking about – as the OP says – “an extra half hour” every 6 months (new Ubuntu release) at most, I’m not too worried about the inconvenience to geeks.
Incidentally, do you folks really reinstall every six months? In 15 years using Linux in several machines, I think I had less than 15 fresh installs all together, or one install lasting several years in each machine (always upgrading, of course). Most of the installs were made to replace operating systems(Windows -> Linux, or just Linux->Linux changing distro).
Canonical pushes out a new version of Ubuntu every 6 months. That doesn’t mean everybody needs to upgrade though. The approach to developing Ubuntu is to do less, better. Meaning the developers focus on developing only a few important features with each release. Which is an approach I would say is mostly working.
Upgrading is easy though. It can be done with a fresh install. It can be done with an alternate install disc or it can be done over the web. The up grade tool just downloads all the files it needs and configures them there and then.
In my opinion, just a user:
-the installation process would be faster if few apps were included by default.
-let users make their choice.
-avoid redundant software.
My experience is:
-I want JUST one solution that works. Best if integrates well.
-I hate getting rid of what I never use.
-I love browsing the software catalog.
So give me choice and no junk, please
thanks
I’m more of a fan of making it easier and more ‘wizard like’ to make custom installation media for Ubuntu. Nerds and enterprises do installations often; if we could more easily pick our software stack then it’d be cool..
There’s an article about this topic (my topic that is) in Linux Journal March issue.
I would favor having software stack selection options on the alternate install CD only (for power users to select if desired.) These kind of choices on the regular live install CD would really confuse the average user (perhaps trying ubuntu for the first time.) The average user should not even be asked to choose between Gnome and KDE either (again really confusing to new users.) Debian does this to a degree where the user can choose standard install, desktop environment, file server, print server, etc.)
The proposed installation customizer is absolutely needed in Ubuntu. Brasero, Transmission, Evolution, games, the list goes on and on of apps (and their libraries and updates) that should not be installed unless the user wants them.
New users should certainly be afforded these choices. Show the user screenshots of the apps and provide enough information to enable the user to make a decision.
The arguments against the proposal are more concerned with usability. Fine, do standard usability testing to develop the customizer, and don’t forget the spelling checker!
“I cannot emphasise enough how much work was invested in fairly deep system changes to ensure that the install was a top-notch, no-nonsense experience,” one commenter said, but Ubuntu still has much room for improvement in this area. Job #1 will be enabling the user to choose which apps he wants at time of OS installation, or at any other time.
The proposal does not add complexity, it reduces it!
Choice is fundamental but by all means hide it behind a “Customize Apps” button. In the end though what is crucial for success of Ubuntu and linux generally is the quality of the software and this is where the next real push should be directed. My guess is that many people looking for choice are pursuing better quality apps. After several years of using linux as my OS of choice I have a list of preferences based on better performance. I am sure many others are the same.
The success of Ubuntu does not hang solely on how smooth the installer is but on the overall user experience.
It seems like most people here don’t know how the installer works: it copies the Ubuntu-installation from the CD to the hard disk, and then makes some changes (mostly deleting or replacing stuff that’s only needed on the live-CD). This copying instead of installing packages is what makes the Ubuntu installer so very _fast_.
If you want to give people more choice of applications, you would need to do package installs instead, which is rather slow in comparison. A nice graphical installer that offers those options–either after the installation or using a dedicated install disc–might be nice for more advanced users but I don’t think it should be in the default Ubuntu installer.
I agree with elvis. This option for adding software during OS install that cannot possibly fit on a CD medium, and therefore necessitates internet connection, could end up in a failed install process if the connection fails, as could happen with a 3G connection during bad weather conditions.
It would be better to have an easy access to these choices in the Welcome Screen.