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	<title>Comments on: Selling Ubuntu to the &quot;Third World&quot;</title>
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		<title>By: Martin Wildam</title>
		<link>http://www.thevarguy.com/2010/04/11/selling-ubuntu-to-the-third-world/comment-page-1/#comment-120816</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Wildam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 May 2010 15:24:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.workswithu.com/?p=2085#comment-120816</guid>
		<description>If you take it a little into consideration what hardware you buy, Ubuntu runs smoothly. It&#039;s just if you buy anything and then want to run Ubuntu on it, you might experience problems. But this is also getting better and better. Ubuntu 10.04 comes up immediately after install telling you (e.g. for NVidia graphic cards): &quot;Hey, there is a probably better fitting, but non-open-source driver available.&quot; - It is a one-click to download and install the other driver.

Of course, some vendors simply don&#039;t get it, that they will loose market share in the long run if they don&#039;t offer support for Linux...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you take it a little into consideration what hardware you buy, Ubuntu runs smoothly. It&#8217;s just if you buy anything and then want to run Ubuntu on it, you might experience problems. But this is also getting better and better. Ubuntu 10.04 comes up immediately after install telling you (e.g. for NVidia graphic cards): &#8220;Hey, there is a probably better fitting, but non-open-source driver available.&#8221; &#8211; It is a one-click to download and install the other driver.</p>
<p>Of course, some vendors simply don&#8217;t get it, that they will loose market share in the long run if they don&#8217;t offer support for Linux&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: aikiwolfie</title>
		<link>http://www.thevarguy.com/2010/04/11/selling-ubuntu-to-the-third-world/comment-page-1/#comment-120815</link>
		<dc:creator>aikiwolfie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Apr 2010 21:00:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.workswithu.com/?p=2085#comment-120815</guid>
		<description>To be totally honest. So long as Windows is pre-loaded on desktops and Linux keeps trying to accommodate the Windows orientated hardware Linux will always be in second or third place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be totally honest. So long as Windows is pre-loaded on desktops and Linux keeps trying to accommodate the Windows orientated hardware Linux will always be in second or third place.</p>
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		<title>By: Laurence</title>
		<link>http://www.thevarguy.com/2010/04/11/selling-ubuntu-to-the-third-world/comment-page-1/#comment-120814</link>
		<dc:creator>Laurence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Apr 2010 16:10:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.workswithu.com/?p=2085#comment-120814</guid>
		<description>On topic: I think Ubuntu&#039; (and other Linux distros&#039;) fighting chance is through small and medium sized businesses.  Software vendors occasionally clamp down on pirated business users, so using FOSS is a *real* alternative for these SMBs.

MS Office = OOo (unless you are running Access)
Photoshop = The GIMP (unless you&#039;re business is graphic design)
Outlook = Web-based email

Now the main problem with SMBs is that many of them run Windows-based business software, both custom-built databases and off-the-shelf accounting software. WINE would be the obvious solution, but that&#039;s a hit-or-miss experience.  So maybe Canonical should find ways to encourage other developers to create GNU/Linux-based business software.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On topic: I think Ubuntu&#8217; (and other Linux distros&#8217;) fighting chance is through small and medium sized businesses.  Software vendors occasionally clamp down on pirated business users, so using FOSS is a *real* alternative for these SMBs.</p>
<p>MS Office = OOo (unless you are running Access)<br />
Photoshop = The GIMP (unless you&#8217;re business is graphic design)<br />
Outlook = Web-based email</p>
<p>Now the main problem with SMBs is that many of them run Windows-based business software, both custom-built databases and off-the-shelf accounting software. WINE would be the obvious solution, but that&#8217;s a hit-or-miss experience.  So maybe Canonical should find ways to encourage other developers to create GNU/Linux-based business software.</p>
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		<title>By: Laurence</title>
		<link>http://www.thevarguy.com/2010/04/11/selling-ubuntu-to-the-third-world/comment-page-1/#comment-120813</link>
		<dc:creator>Laurence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Apr 2010 16:04:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.workswithu.com/?p=2085#comment-120813</guid>
		<description>Side note: Christopher, let&#039;s be more politically correct and not call developing nations as &quot;Third World&quot; anymore.  While many people understand the concept of &quot;Third World&quot;, it&#039;s really outdated and by it&#039;s very name biased for the &quot;First World&quot; and &quot;Second World&quot; countries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Side note: Christopher, let&#8217;s be more politically correct and not call developing nations as &#8220;Third World&#8221; anymore.  While many people understand the concept of &#8220;Third World&#8221;, it&#8217;s really outdated and by it&#8217;s very name biased for the &#8220;First World&#8221; and &#8220;Second World&#8221; countries.</p>
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		<title>By: Júlio</title>
		<link>http://www.thevarguy.com/2010/04/11/selling-ubuntu-to-the-third-world/comment-page-1/#comment-120812</link>
		<dc:creator>Júlio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Apr 2010 07:47:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.workswithu.com/?p=2085#comment-120812</guid>
		<description>The graphic is old...
In 4 years MANY things have changed.

I&#039;m from Brazil and here Ubuntu would be a very useful system... if it have the most common &quot;winmodem&quot; (soft modem for dial-up conections) drivers out of box.

Others issues like... easy to use... simple, programs, etc... are not a problem (obviously... except for those who need professional tools like Auto Cad).

There&#039;s no problem that Canonical could deal with...

Any Apple&#039;s product is very expensive here... but it is growing... and growing fast... first because of iPod... and now it is iPhone. The Mac computers also are getting space in our market... but there&#039;s no special reason for that... too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The graphic is old&#8230;<br />
In 4 years MANY things have changed.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m from Brazil and here Ubuntu would be a very useful system&#8230; if it have the most common &#8220;winmodem&#8221; (soft modem for dial-up conections) drivers out of box.</p>
<p>Others issues like&#8230; easy to use&#8230; simple, programs, etc&#8230; are not a problem (obviously&#8230; except for those who need professional tools like Auto Cad).</p>
<p>There&#8217;s no problem that Canonical could deal with&#8230;</p>
<p>Any Apple&#8217;s product is very expensive here&#8230; but it is growing&#8230; and growing fast&#8230; first because of iPod&#8230; and now it is iPhone. The Mac computers also are getting space in our market&#8230; but there&#8217;s no special reason for that&#8230; too.</p>
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		<title>By: Greetings from India</title>
		<link>http://www.thevarguy.com/2010/04/11/selling-ubuntu-to-the-third-world/comment-page-1/#comment-120811</link>
		<dc:creator>Greetings from India</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Apr 2010 16:09:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.workswithu.com/?p=2085#comment-120811</guid>
		<description>This article misses completely the point from my point of view. I am writing you from India, a &quot;developing&quot; country and the main obstacle for the low success of Open Source is a piracy rate in India fro example of 75% !
Most businesses and even the government offices here run unlicensed software without that the international community (including Microsoft, Adobe etc) can do much about it.
Microsoft doesn&#039;t do anything is the first 10 to 20 years in a developing county because they want to make sure that government and industry become dependant on their software. Once that has happened they start to make those countries pay the bill. Even laptop and Desktops sold in India with Linux are sold only on paper with Linux. Lots of dealer deliver them with a unlicensed XP or Vista version.
Who wonders why people here don&#039;t change? They are used to Windows and it&#039;s practically &quot;free&quot; in India together with Adobe and all the other software. And one hardly gets support for Linux. I think that are reasons enough to see why Linux doesn&#039;t make it in developing countries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This article misses completely the point from my point of view. I am writing you from India, a &#8220;developing&#8221; country and the main obstacle for the low success of Open Source is a piracy rate in India fro example of 75% !<br />
Most businesses and even the government offices here run unlicensed software without that the international community (including Microsoft, Adobe etc) can do much about it.<br />
Microsoft doesn&#8217;t do anything is the first 10 to 20 years in a developing county because they want to make sure that government and industry become dependant on their software. Once that has happened they start to make those countries pay the bill. Even laptop and Desktops sold in India with Linux are sold only on paper with Linux. Lots of dealer deliver them with a unlicensed XP or Vista version.<br />
Who wonders why people here don&#8217;t change? They are used to Windows and it&#8217;s practically &#8220;free&#8221; in India together with Adobe and all the other software. And one hardly gets support for Linux. I think that are reasons enough to see why Linux doesn&#8217;t make it in developing countries.</p>
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		<title>By: B. Greene</title>
		<link>http://www.thevarguy.com/2010/04/11/selling-ubuntu-to-the-third-world/comment-page-1/#comment-120810</link>
		<dc:creator>B. Greene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Apr 2010 18:23:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.workswithu.com/?p=2085#comment-120810</guid>
		<description>Its quite expensive to run a full desktop OS on a cheap netbook or old computer. Netbooks are best used a a complement to a full sized pc or notebook. No-name brand or self built computers are still relatively cheap. I beleive that the overriding reason for limited adoption is more structural than anything else: The cost, quality, reliability and availability of power supply and Internet connectivity increases the risk of purchase of electronic equiptment. I worked in a company that had a battery of book-keepers writing out payroll checks by hand because power was rationed in a way that a payroll run could not be completed any other way. Consider going to a govenment office or a bank and not having service because they or someone they need to communicate with have no power or Internet connectivity.
Those people that are likely to have computers in the home are unlikely to adopt linux if they are required to go to the Internet (often by lugging a desktop to an Internet Cafe) to download software or update. They can buy or pirate windows and subsequently obtain software on disks that will not cry out for an Internet connection to download dependencies. How can you get games, and other software, writers to have confidence in Linux if their market suffers this risk.
If the power and Internet connectivity problems are resolved then there will be a tremendous momentum to adoption of the Internet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its quite expensive to run a full desktop OS on a cheap netbook or old computer. Netbooks are best used a a complement to a full sized pc or notebook. No-name brand or self built computers are still relatively cheap. I beleive that the overriding reason for limited adoption is more structural than anything else: The cost, quality, reliability and availability of power supply and Internet connectivity increases the risk of purchase of electronic equiptment. I worked in a company that had a battery of book-keepers writing out payroll checks by hand because power was rationed in a way that a payroll run could not be completed any other way. Consider going to a govenment office or a bank and not having service because they or someone they need to communicate with have no power or Internet connectivity.<br />
Those people that are likely to have computers in the home are unlikely to adopt linux if they are required to go to the Internet (often by lugging a desktop to an Internet Cafe) to download software or update. They can buy or pirate windows and subsequently obtain software on disks that will not cry out for an Internet connection to download dependencies. How can you get games, and other software, writers to have confidence in Linux if their market suffers this risk.<br />
If the power and Internet connectivity problems are resolved then there will be a tremendous momentum to adoption of the Internet.</p>
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		<title>By: Artemis3</title>
		<link>http://www.thevarguy.com/2010/04/11/selling-ubuntu-to-the-third-world/comment-page-1/#comment-120809</link>
		<dc:creator>Artemis3</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Apr 2010 02:06:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.workswithu.com/?p=2085#comment-120809</guid>
		<description>Yes, I believe hardware is key. To begin with, many people don&#039;t have the machines to install things to. That map could be a machines/per capita result. And in these countries you need to sell stuff cheap, such as MenQ&#039;s 80$ ARM netbook.

Price is not the issue, what remains is quality.
Pre-installed is important, as many people don&#039;t have connectivity either.

This is for linux in general. For Ubuntu, it helps if the SABDFL please abstain from involving himself in politics of foreign countries. That hurt A LOT when a government is moving towards migration... Now they use a much less user friendly distro and disillusioned people go back to Microsoft.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I believe hardware is key. To begin with, many people don&#8217;t have the machines to install things to. That map could be a machines/per capita result. And in these countries you need to sell stuff cheap, such as MenQ&#8217;s 80$ ARM netbook.</p>
<p>Price is not the issue, what remains is quality.<br />
Pre-installed is important, as many people don&#8217;t have connectivity either.</p>
<p>This is for linux in general. For Ubuntu, it helps if the SABDFL please abstain from involving himself in politics of foreign countries. That hurt A LOT when a government is moving towards migration&#8230; Now they use a much less user friendly distro and disillusioned people go back to Microsoft.</p>
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		<title>By: Links 12/4/2010: Awn 0.4.0, VP8 Becoming Free Software &#124; Techrights</title>
		<link>http://www.thevarguy.com/2010/04/11/selling-ubuntu-to-the-third-world/comment-page-1/#comment-120808</link>
		<dc:creator>Links 12/4/2010: Awn 0.4.0, VP8 Becoming Free Software &#124; Techrights</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Apr 2010 22:26:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.workswithu.com/?p=2085#comment-120808</guid>
		<description>[...] Selling Ubuntu to the “Third World” Ubuntu adoption for communities in the “Third World” seems like it should be a no-brainer: how could a functional, free operating system not prove wildly popular in developing countries? Nonetheless, I believe Ubuntu use outside rich nations remains limited. Here’s a look at some suggested explanations of that reality, and how to change it. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Selling Ubuntu to the “Third World” Ubuntu adoption for communities in the “Third World” seems like it should be a no-brainer: how could a functional, free operating system not prove wildly popular in developing countries? Nonetheless, I believe Ubuntu use outside rich nations remains limited. Here’s a look at some suggested explanations of that reality, and how to change it. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: aikiwolfie</title>
		<link>http://www.thevarguy.com/2010/04/11/selling-ubuntu-to-the-third-world/comment-page-1/#comment-120807</link>
		<dc:creator>aikiwolfie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Apr 2010 21:23:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.workswithu.com/?p=2085#comment-120807</guid>
		<description>Once again the problem is third party applications and developers. OpenOffice.org and Firefox are excellent professionally developed and finished applications. However that&#039;s not enough.

If Linux is ever going to take over the desktop then all the applications need to be up to scratch. There is absolutely no point in the Ubuntu repositories being chock full of half baked not even nearly finished games if the alternative accountancy software doesn&#039;t do everything the proprietary Windows based counterpart does.

It&#039;s not enough for free or open source software alternatives to do nearly everything or mostly everything the Windows based competition does. Free software alternatives must do it all, do it better and do more.

That is the nature of competition. People will not turn from their expensive ball and chain unless the competition is better. That&#039;s how Apple captured the MP3 download market. They produced a far superior product than the competition.

Open Source and Free Open Source Software developers clearly don&#039;t have the resources to do everything on their own. Companies like IBM are not interested in developing a vibrant ecosystem. Their interests lay closer to home. Not that their contributions aren&#039;t welcome.

If Canonical really wants to conquer the desktop it will need to seriously invest in applications software development and marketing. It will need to develop partnerships with third party developers and OEMs. IBM and Dell are good starts. But they&#039;re playing the wrong end of the field.

Everybody involved in OSS and FOSS should ditch the fanatical ethos that a Linux OS must run on a 286 with 64KB of RAM. We live in the modern world. People who live in the third world want to live in our modern world. They don&#039;t want to be patronised with something designed for yesterdays technology. Even if that is all they have. They want to feel like they&#039;re on par with the rest of us. Which is why they foolishly hold up Windows as the gold standard to beat. So we need to stop selling Linux short.

Yes it can run on old machines. That&#039;s not such a great marketing slogan though. It might be what many people want. But it doesn&#039;t inspire people to buy into the dream.

It might not strictly be a third world concern. However the gaming industry has repeatedly expressed an interest in Linux. Every now and then a games developer dips it&#039;s toes in the Linux waters. But there&#039;s no corporate entity for them to engage with. To partner with. Canonical certainly aren&#039;t embracing them. So they wander off to another platform.

They adopt the Xbox or the Playstation or the Wii because the vendors of those systems bend over backwards to make them accessible. Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo court developers and establish lucrative deals and relationships. In return games developers develop games for these platforms.

Key to getting Ubuntu accepted on the desktops of the third world will be acceptance within the business communities of the first world. Software that is useful to first world business leaders will be equally useful to third world business leaders.

After all, if we&#039;re really trying to develop third world economies and markets. Why are we treating them like dumb apes?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once again the problem is third party applications and developers. OpenOffice.org and Firefox are excellent professionally developed and finished applications. However that&#8217;s not enough.</p>
<p>If Linux is ever going to take over the desktop then all the applications need to be up to scratch. There is absolutely no point in the Ubuntu repositories being chock full of half baked not even nearly finished games if the alternative accountancy software doesn&#8217;t do everything the proprietary Windows based counterpart does.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not enough for free or open source software alternatives to do nearly everything or mostly everything the Windows based competition does. Free software alternatives must do it all, do it better and do more.</p>
<p>That is the nature of competition. People will not turn from their expensive ball and chain unless the competition is better. That&#8217;s how Apple captured the MP3 download market. They produced a far superior product than the competition.</p>
<p>Open Source and Free Open Source Software developers clearly don&#8217;t have the resources to do everything on their own. Companies like IBM are not interested in developing a vibrant ecosystem. Their interests lay closer to home. Not that their contributions aren&#8217;t welcome.</p>
<p>If Canonical really wants to conquer the desktop it will need to seriously invest in applications software development and marketing. It will need to develop partnerships with third party developers and OEMs. IBM and Dell are good starts. But they&#8217;re playing the wrong end of the field.</p>
<p>Everybody involved in OSS and FOSS should ditch the fanatical ethos that a Linux OS must run on a 286 with 64KB of RAM. We live in the modern world. People who live in the third world want to live in our modern world. They don&#8217;t want to be patronised with something designed for yesterdays technology. Even if that is all they have. They want to feel like they&#8217;re on par with the rest of us. Which is why they foolishly hold up Windows as the gold standard to beat. So we need to stop selling Linux short.</p>
<p>Yes it can run on old machines. That&#8217;s not such a great marketing slogan though. It might be what many people want. But it doesn&#8217;t inspire people to buy into the dream.</p>
<p>It might not strictly be a third world concern. However the gaming industry has repeatedly expressed an interest in Linux. Every now and then a games developer dips it&#8217;s toes in the Linux waters. But there&#8217;s no corporate entity for them to engage with. To partner with. Canonical certainly aren&#8217;t embracing them. So they wander off to another platform.</p>
<p>They adopt the Xbox or the Playstation or the Wii because the vendors of those systems bend over backwards to make them accessible. Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo court developers and establish lucrative deals and relationships. In return games developers develop games for these platforms.</p>
<p>Key to getting Ubuntu accepted on the desktops of the third world will be acceptance within the business communities of the first world. Software that is useful to first world business leaders will be equally useful to third world business leaders.</p>
<p>After all, if we&#8217;re really trying to develop third world economies and markets. Why are we treating them like dumb apes?</p>
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		<title>By: Jef Spaleta</title>
		<link>http://www.thevarguy.com/2010/04/11/selling-ubuntu-to-the-third-world/comment-page-1/#comment-120806</link>
		<dc:creator>Jef Spaleta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Apr 2010 17:00:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.workswithu.com/?p=2085#comment-120806</guid>
		<description>Does anyone who is responsible for generating the map image Chris has used in this article.  There are better ways to visualize density which I can help them with.

For example of how I think you can get a better visualization look at this:
fedoraproject.org/maps/all.png

In Fedora we are generating unique IP address density maps..heat maps..from our MirrorManager logs in an effort to give a global picture of where Fedora is being actively used.  I&#039;ve gridded unique ip address clients counts based on a lat/lon grid and then projected that back over a global map.

One of the reasons I did the client density heat map was because the simple scatter plot of geoip markers was too crowded to really say anything significant.

If the Ubuntu forum people are interested adapting our map generation script.. it can pulled from our Fedora infrastructure git repository so they can produce similar heat maps from their forum connection logs.   I&#039;m more than happy to help with the adaptation if they run into any problems.

The 2006 map is probably a very out dated picture.  I&#039;m much more confident in the Fedora usage map image I&#039;ve included, which tells a somewhat different story. We are seeing significant pockets of usage in India and in South America, to the extent that we can trust the geoip conversion.  I&#039;d very much like to see the Ubuntu community use a similar approach so we can get a more comprehensive view of global linux adoption that we can trend over time.

-jef</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anyone who is responsible for generating the map image Chris has used in this article.  There are better ways to visualize density which I can help them with.</p>
<p>For example of how I think you can get a better visualization look at this:<br />
fedoraproject.org/maps/all.png</p>
<p>In Fedora we are generating unique IP address density maps..heat maps..from our MirrorManager logs in an effort to give a global picture of where Fedora is being actively used.  I&#8217;ve gridded unique ip address clients counts based on a lat/lon grid and then projected that back over a global map.</p>
<p>One of the reasons I did the client density heat map was because the simple scatter plot of geoip markers was too crowded to really say anything significant.</p>
<p>If the Ubuntu forum people are interested adapting our map generation script.. it can pulled from our Fedora infrastructure git repository so they can produce similar heat maps from their forum connection logs.   I&#8217;m more than happy to help with the adaptation if they run into any problems.</p>
<p>The 2006 map is probably a very out dated picture.  I&#8217;m much more confident in the Fedora usage map image I&#8217;ve included, which tells a somewhat different story. We are seeing significant pockets of usage in India and in South America, to the extent that we can trust the geoip conversion.  I&#8217;d very much like to see the Ubuntu community use a similar approach so we can get a more comprehensive view of global linux adoption that we can trend over time.</p>
<p>-jef</p>
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		<title>By: Leo</title>
		<link>http://www.thevarguy.com/2010/04/11/selling-ubuntu-to-the-third-world/comment-page-1/#comment-120805</link>
		<dc:creator>Leo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Apr 2010 12:10:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.workswithu.com/?p=2085#comment-120805</guid>
		<description>This is right, in developing economies the alternatives are: do you get a pirate version of windows from any of your friends, and get help from any of them to fix the infinite number of problems you&#039;ll have? Or ... well, or you have an OSS guru around, which is a lot less likely.

MS&#039;s strategy has been a no-brainer: look the other way. And wait for the economy of the country to pick up to crack down on people. In many cases they do go after commercial users (businesses). It is in their best interest to keep the monopoly going, whatever it takes.

The big missing factor here is Governments and businesses. These should be the targets for Ubuntu/Linux. Governments need access to the source, they need openness, transparency. They get all that with Linux. Business need to look at costs even more than in developed economies. Again, Ubuntu should have an edge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is right, in developing economies the alternatives are: do you get a pirate version of windows from any of your friends, and get help from any of them to fix the infinite number of problems you&#8217;ll have? Or &#8230; well, or you have an OSS guru around, which is a lot less likely.</p>
<p>MS&#8217;s strategy has been a no-brainer: look the other way. And wait for the economy of the country to pick up to crack down on people. In many cases they do go after commercial users (businesses). It is in their best interest to keep the monopoly going, whatever it takes.</p>
<p>The big missing factor here is Governments and businesses. These should be the targets for Ubuntu/Linux. Governments need access to the source, they need openness, transparency. They get all that with Linux. Business need to look at costs even more than in developed economies. Again, Ubuntu should have an edge.</p>
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