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	<title>Comments on: VirtualBox vs. KVM on the Desktop: A Comparison</title>
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		<title>By: Eric Green</title>
		<link>http://www.thevarguy.com/2010/06/14/virtualbox-vs-kvm-on-the-desktop-a-comparison/comment-page-1/#comment-124132</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Nov 2010 16:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.workswithu.com/?p=2259#comment-124132</guid>
		<description>@linux otaku, I&#039;ve never managed to get PCI passthrough of a modern nVidia gaming card to work right. Other devices, yes. Graphics cards, no. Closest I got was with Xen on OpenSuse 11.3 where I got it to show up in a started machine but Windows 7 says there&#039;s a problem with the device and won&#039;t bring it up. From reading the various FAQ&#039;s on the Internets it appears that there&#039;s people who&#039;ve gotten it to work, but only with specific graphics cards that aren&#039;t aimed at gamers. I have a Core I7-950 waiting to get this working, I&#039;ll get it working someday even if I have to hack at the kernel to make it work, but it&#039;s definitely not as easy as the quick throw-away about &quot;passing through a graphics card&quot; that you mention.

Dan Linder&#039;s problem with KVM performance sounds like he created his virtual machine hard drive as qcow2, which has bad bad performance with ext4 and xfs due to Red Hat (the owner of qemu) *forcing* write-through mode to &quot;avoid disk corruption&quot;. If I create my virtual machine with a &#039;raw&#039; drive in write-back mode, it runs significantly faster.  If I partition my hard drive to have a LVM physical volume, create a logical volume group &#039;virtgroup&#039;, and create a logical volume &#039;win7&#039; and assign /dev/virtgroup/win7 as the hard drive for my virtual machine, it runs at virtually the speed of the hardware, significantly faster than userland solutions like VMWare Workstation and VirtualBox, especially after installing the virtio drivers in Windows. Well, until you want to display something. At which point using rdesktop to access your Windows virtual machine runs *much* faster than using the pathetic graphics console that KVM provides. 

spice-space.org looks like they&#039;re creating a new incompatible screen display protocol to do the exact same things that RDP does (i.e., pass sound and such as well as screen info over the Internet). Remotely logged into a Windows machine using an official Microsoft RDP viewer I can hear the sound, and even attach virtual drives to the remote machine to install software. It always amuses me when Microsoft re-invents Unix, badly, but here it appears Linux is re-inventing Microsoft, badly -- for no good reason, because Microsoft has published the specs on RDP and there&#039;s already the beginnings of a good viewer for Linux (rdesktop). Siiiiiiiigh.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@linux otaku, I&#8217;ve never managed to get PCI passthrough of a modern nVidia gaming card to work right. Other devices, yes. Graphics cards, no. Closest I got was with Xen on OpenSuse 11.3 where I got it to show up in a started machine but Windows 7 says there&#8217;s a problem with the device and won&#8217;t bring it up. From reading the various FAQ&#8217;s on the Internets it appears that there&#8217;s people who&#8217;ve gotten it to work, but only with specific graphics cards that aren&#8217;t aimed at gamers. I have a Core I7-950 waiting to get this working, I&#8217;ll get it working someday even if I have to hack at the kernel to make it work, but it&#8217;s definitely not as easy as the quick throw-away about &#8220;passing through a graphics card&#8221; that you mention.</p>
<p>Dan Linder&#8217;s problem with KVM performance sounds like he created his virtual machine hard drive as qcow2, which has bad bad performance with ext4 and xfs due to Red Hat (the owner of qemu) *forcing* write-through mode to &#8220;avoid disk corruption&#8221;. If I create my virtual machine with a &#8216;raw&#8217; drive in write-back mode, it runs significantly faster.  If I partition my hard drive to have a LVM physical volume, create a logical volume group &#8216;virtgroup&#8217;, and create a logical volume &#8216;win7&#8242; and assign /dev/virtgroup/win7 as the hard drive for my virtual machine, it runs at virtually the speed of the hardware, significantly faster than userland solutions like VMWare Workstation and VirtualBox, especially after installing the virtio drivers in Windows. Well, until you want to display something. At which point using rdesktop to access your Windows virtual machine runs *much* faster than using the pathetic graphics console that KVM provides. </p>
<p>spice-space.org looks like they&#8217;re creating a new incompatible screen display protocol to do the exact same things that RDP does (i.e., pass sound and such as well as screen info over the Internet). Remotely logged into a Windows machine using an official Microsoft RDP viewer I can hear the sound, and even attach virtual drives to the remote machine to install software. It always amuses me when Microsoft re-invents Unix, badly, but here it appears Linux is re-inventing Microsoft, badly &#8212; for no good reason, because Microsoft has published the specs on RDP and there&#8217;s already the beginnings of a good viewer for Linux (rdesktop). Siiiiiiiigh&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: lux</title>
		<link>http://www.thevarguy.com/2010/06/14/virtualbox-vs-kvm-on-the-desktop-a-comparison/comment-page-1/#comment-123331</link>
		<dc:creator>lux</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Oct 2010 09:07:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.workswithu.com/?p=2259#comment-123331</guid>
		<description>@linux otaku

it&#039;s early, but the scenario is changing

http://www.spice-space.org/home.html

@Christopher Tozzi

http://sourceforge.net/projects/aqemu/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@linux otaku</p>
<p>it&#8217;s early, but the scenario is changing</p>
<p><a href="http://www.spice-space.org/home.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.spice-space.org/home.html</a></p>
<p>@Christopher Tozzi</p>
<p><a href="http://sourceforge.net/projects/aqemu/" rel="nofollow">http://sourceforge.net/projects/aqemu/</a></p>
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		<title>By: lux</title>
		<link>http://www.thevarguy.com/2010/06/14/virtualbox-vs-kvm-on-the-desktop-a-comparison/comment-page-1/#comment-123330</link>
		<dc:creator>lux</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Oct 2010 09:06:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.workswithu.com/?p=2259#comment-123330</guid>
		<description>@linux otaku

it&#039;s early, but the scenario is changing

http://www.spice-space.org/home.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@linux otaku</p>
<p>it&#8217;s early, but the scenario is changing</p>
<p><a href="http://www.spice-space.org/home.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.spice-space.org/home.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Linux Otaku</title>
		<link>http://www.thevarguy.com/2010/06/14/virtualbox-vs-kvm-on-the-desktop-a-comparison/comment-page-1/#comment-121026</link>
		<dc:creator>Linux Otaku</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Sep 2010 22:46:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.workswithu.com/?p=2259#comment-121026</guid>
		<description>KVM actually supports OpenGL in Windows guest with VMGL, but the code seems old, and only OpenGL 1.5 is supported, and even so there might be problems with some extensions not being fully compliant. Quake 3 and some other games should work though. If your mainboard&#039;s BIOS and chipset support IOMMU / vt-d then you can dedicate one graphics card to the geust, connect another display, and if you are lucky, you should get fully working guest. Should work better with Intel, AMD is said to be tricky, because although 890FX chipset support vt-d, mainboard manufacturers don&#039;t, and the option is not in bios.

VirtualBox have full support for OpenGL 2, and with WineD3D even some DX8/DX9 games should work, but the DX support is still experimental. There might be problems playing HD videos in Windows 7 guest, I managed to play it with smplayer and opengl driver on integrated intel card (720p only), but I think the faster the gpu, the faster the video (but why to play it there anyway? Only if you are thinking of making multiterminal for a school or so, but than you can buy better mainboard with vt-d support and the cheapest graphics card)

If gaming is not a priority, or only OpenGL games are to be played, then it seems better option to buy a cheaper mainboard without vt-d, and buy SSD for extra performance, and use VirtualBox on that. It might be even possible to install some glide wrapper for oldest games, supposing that OpenGL support is really full.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>KVM actually supports OpenGL in Windows guest with VMGL, but the code seems old, and only OpenGL 1.5 is supported, and even so there might be problems with some extensions not being fully compliant. Quake 3 and some other games should work though. If your mainboard&#8217;s BIOS and chipset support IOMMU / vt-d then you can dedicate one graphics card to the geust, connect another display, and if you are lucky, you should get fully working guest. Should work better with Intel, AMD is said to be tricky, because although 890FX chipset support vt-d, mainboard manufacturers don&#8217;t, and the option is not in bios.</p>
<p>VirtualBox have full support for OpenGL 2, and with WineD3D even some DX8/DX9 games should work, but the DX support is still experimental. There might be problems playing HD videos in Windows 7 guest, I managed to play it with smplayer and opengl driver on integrated intel card (720p only), but I think the faster the gpu, the faster the video (but why to play it there anyway? Only if you are thinking of making multiterminal for a school or so, but than you can buy better mainboard with vt-d support and the cheapest graphics card)</p>
<p>If gaming is not a priority, or only OpenGL games are to be played, then it seems better option to buy a cheaper mainboard without vt-d, and buy SSD for extra performance, and use VirtualBox on that. It might be even possible to install some glide wrapper for oldest games, supposing that OpenGL support is really full.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://www.thevarguy.com/2010/06/14/virtualbox-vs-kvm-on-the-desktop-a-comparison/comment-page-1/#comment-121025</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Aug 2010 13:12:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.workswithu.com/?p=2259#comment-121025</guid>
		<description>Well I will certainly unintsall VBox now. It looks as if now its dangerous to get tangled up in Oracle&#039;s open source software. I&#039;m guessing the Google law suit is only the beginning of pulling the rug from under you to get the profits they need from Sun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I will certainly unintsall VBox now. It looks as if now its dangerous to get tangled up in Oracle&#8217;s open source software. I&#8217;m guessing the Google law suit is only the beginning of pulling the rug from under you to get the profits they need from Sun.</p>
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		<title>By: Maxwell Spangler</title>
		<link>http://www.thevarguy.com/2010/06/14/virtualbox-vs-kvm-on-the-desktop-a-comparison/comment-page-1/#comment-121024</link>
		<dc:creator>Maxwell Spangler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jun 2010 23:32:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.workswithu.com/?p=2259#comment-121024</guid>
		<description>The poor performance Dan Linder describes sounds as if his virtualization environment is running in software (QEMU) only mode.  I almost wrote KVM off when using it on an old laptop because performance was unusable.

On my four core AMD Phenom II 945 (four core, 6M L3 cache) system, KVM is as good as VirtualBox.

I think we&#039;ll see KVM win for server use and VirtualBox win for desktop users.  A lot of this has to do with how Oracle handles VirtualBox in the future: tightening of licensing could be a huge boost for KVM.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The poor performance Dan Linder describes sounds as if his virtualization environment is running in software (QEMU) only mode.  I almost wrote KVM off when using it on an old laptop because performance was unusable.</p>
<p>On my four core AMD Phenom II 945 (four core, 6M L3 cache) system, KVM is as good as VirtualBox.</p>
<p>I think we&#8217;ll see KVM win for server use and VirtualBox win for desktop users.  A lot of this has to do with how Oracle handles VirtualBox in the future: tightening of licensing could be a huge boost for KVM.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Tozzi</title>
		<link>http://www.thevarguy.com/2010/06/14/virtualbox-vs-kvm-on-the-desktop-a-comparison/comment-page-1/#comment-121023</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Tozzi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jun 2010 15:13:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.workswithu.com/?p=2259#comment-121023</guid>
		<description>Jay: good suggestion.  I&#039;ll see about putting something like that together in the coming weeks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jay: good suggestion.  I&#8217;ll see about putting something like that together in the coming weeks.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jay</title>
		<link>http://www.thevarguy.com/2010/06/14/virtualbox-vs-kvm-on-the-desktop-a-comparison/comment-page-1/#comment-121022</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jun 2010 09:52:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.workswithu.com/?p=2259#comment-121022</guid>
		<description>Would WorksWithU be willing to write up an &quot;intro to virtualization&quot; post for people who don&#039;t know a lot about it and how it might be used for average end-users?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would WorksWithU be willing to write up an &#8220;intro to virtualization&#8221; post for people who don&#8217;t know a lot about it and how it might be used for average end-users?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: [demo] How to run Windows XP on Linux Ubuntu with Virtualbox &#124; Rainy Technology</title>
		<link>http://www.thevarguy.com/2010/06/14/virtualbox-vs-kvm-on-the-desktop-a-comparison/comment-page-1/#comment-121021</link>
		<dc:creator>[demo] How to run Windows XP on Linux Ubuntu with Virtualbox &#124; Rainy Technology</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jun 2010 14:09:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.workswithu.com/?p=2259#comment-121021</guid>
		<description>[...] VirtualBox vs. KVM on the Desktop: A Comparison &#124; WorksWithU [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] VirtualBox vs. KVM on the Desktop: A Comparison | WorksWithU [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: RDL</title>
		<link>http://www.thevarguy.com/2010/06/14/virtualbox-vs-kvm-on-the-desktop-a-comparison/comment-page-1/#comment-121020</link>
		<dc:creator>RDL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jun 2010 04:47:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.workswithu.com/?p=2259#comment-121020</guid>
		<description>@ dan_linder:

Lucid user here.

That&#039;s pretty much the same experience I had.

But I&#039;m not sure if it&#039;s related to disk flushing issues; from what I understand, VirtualBox&#039;s disk config is writeback by default, while KVM&#039;s is writetrough, but I could be Oh-So-Wrong...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ dan_linder:</p>
<p>Lucid user here.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s pretty much the same experience I had.</p>
<p>But I&#8217;m not sure if it&#8217;s related to disk flushing issues; from what I understand, VirtualBox&#8217;s disk config is writeback by default, while KVM&#8217;s is writetrough, but I could be Oh-So-Wrong&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jo-Erlend Schinstad</title>
		<link>http://www.thevarguy.com/2010/06/14/virtualbox-vs-kvm-on-the-desktop-a-comparison/comment-page-1/#comment-121019</link>
		<dc:creator>Jo-Erlend Schinstad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 08:35:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.workswithu.com/?p=2259#comment-121019</guid>
		<description>It is not difficult to choose between KVM and VirtualBox. If you have a desktop and want to run desktop guests, then VirtualBox is far superior at this point. When and if KVM gets support for dedicating a VGA to a guest, so you can have real 3D, this may change, but that&#039;s not happening any time soon.

If, on the other hand, you have headless servers and services that must always be available but preferably not too visible, then KVM with libvirt is a clear winner. If you run desktop guest systems on KVM, then you&#039;ll certainly want to drop VNC as quickly as possible. Using RDP for Windows and NX for GNU+Linux, is _far_ superior.

You cannot run accelerated VirtualBox and KVM at the same time, but if you close down all the guests from one, then it&#039;s no problem to run the other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is not difficult to choose between KVM and VirtualBox. If you have a desktop and want to run desktop guests, then VirtualBox is far superior at this point. When and if KVM gets support for dedicating a VGA to a guest, so you can have real 3D, this may change, but that&#8217;s not happening any time soon.</p>
<p>If, on the other hand, you have headless servers and services that must always be available but preferably not too visible, then KVM with libvirt is a clear winner. If you run desktop guest systems on KVM, then you&#8217;ll certainly want to drop VNC as quickly as possible. Using RDP for Windows and NX for GNU+Linux, is _far_ superior.</p>
<p>You cannot run accelerated VirtualBox and KVM at the same time, but if you close down all the guests from one, then it&#8217;s no problem to run the other.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Tozzi</title>
		<link>http://www.thevarguy.com/2010/06/14/virtualbox-vs-kvm-on-the-desktop-a-comparison/comment-page-1/#comment-121018</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Tozzi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 00:05:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.workswithu.com/?p=2259#comment-121018</guid>
		<description>Chris: thanks for the tips.  I had never thought about writing a script to start VirtualBox VMs at boot.  With KVM, of course, you can configure machines to start at boot in the libvirt configuration (assuming you&#039;re using libvirt), so this is a relevant point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris: thanks for the tips.  I had never thought about writing a script to start VirtualBox VMs at boot.  With KVM, of course, you can configure machines to start at boot in the libvirt configuration (assuming you&#8217;re using libvirt), so this is a relevant point.</p>
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