GNOME Developers Attack Canonical’s Ubuntu Decision
Oct. 27th, 2010 by Christopher Tozzi
Many Ubuntu users will undoubtedly have strong opinions on Canonical’s recent proposal to replace the GNOME desktop with Unity in the Ubuntu 11.04 release. But for the programmers behind GNOME, one of the open-source community’s most important projects, the announcement might prove to be even more upsetting. Jon McCann, lead designer for GNOME Shell, recently shared his thoughts on this topic with us–and he was none too charitable in his comments on Canonical. Read on for details.
GNOME Shell, of course, is the new desktop interface on which GNOME developers are currently hard at work as the next big step for one of the Linux world’s most popular desktop environments. GNOME Shell introduces a number of innovative interface concepts that, if successful, could truly redefine the way users interact with their operating system.
Unity, meanwhile, is an interface developed by Canonical that borrows many of its ideas from GNOME Shell. Canonical began work on Unity last spring, and introduced it as the default interface for Ubuntu Netbook Edition in the Ubuntu 10.10 release, which debuted a few weeks ago.
But the big news came last Monday at the Ubuntu Developer Summit in Florida, where Mark Shuttleworth suggested that the next Ubuntu release, April 2011′s Natty Narwhal, should adopt Unity as the interface for Ubuntu Desktop Edition as well as the netbook version, which would entail major changes for many users–not to mention upstream developers, who might have to make big changes if they want their code to remain consonant with Unity.
Canonical’s Leap Off?
Ubuntu developer Jono Bacon was quick to point out that Unity will still depend heavily on GNOME’s software stack, even if the interface itself break away from GNOME. That may be true, but GNOME developer Jon McCann nonetheless views this move as a fundamental break between Ubuntu and GNOME.
Not that McCann was surprised. “Canonical has been pulling away from the GNOME project for about two years,” he declared. “So, this was inevitable. I suspect that the timing probably has a lot to do with Mark’s jealousy of the recent OS X Tiger announcement.”
Nor did McCann question the validity of Canonical’s decision. The organization has been working “to differentiate and become a profitable company” for some time now, he said, and the break with GNOME seems to fit into that equation.
But McCann is doubtful that Canonical’s new strategy will pay off for the company. Questioning the feasibility of getting Unity ready for Ubuntu Desktop Edition by April, McCann noted that Unity’s principal designer just left Canonical, and that it will be difficult for the company to forge a completely independent path after having relied centrally on upstream contributions for most of its existence. “When you have been standing on the shoulders of giants for so long it is a bold move to leap off and hope you can fly on your own,” McCann asserted.
Despite his lack of optimism for Canonical’s strategy, however, McCann views the break as a change that can make GNOME stronger by lessening its dependence on downstream developers. “We should probably stop relying on distributions to deliver our value anyway. I think there is a valid comparison to how musicians are starting to realize they don’t need to sell their soul to record companies and corporate radio stations to reach their audience.”
And insofar as the Unity plans might represent a rift between Ubuntu and GNOME–or, indeed, between Ubuntu and much of the rest of the open-source ecosystem–McCann does not rule out the possibility of a reconciliation in the future, concluding, “I am sure that if they don’t succeed we will welcome them back like the prodigal son.”
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For me, the most distressing part of this little war is how eager some Ubuntu fans have been to turn on GNOME and bitterly accuse its developers of every sort of malfeasance and incompetence or to lash out GNOME Shell without really providing any specific criticisms.
Definitely agree with the above commenter. I love Ubuntu and what it’s done for the Linux desktop in terms of usability and accessibility, but I don’t like them breaking away from the rest of the FOSS community. I feel like this is moreorless just an attempt to present Canonical/Ubuntu as something really worth OEMs purchasing. While that’s all well and good and perfectly understandable from a business standpoint, 1) something about it just sits wrong with me and 2) it probably won’t pay off for Canonical in the end.
I’m curious what Linux Mint, a distro downstream from Ubuntu, will do. I’d be interested to see if they keep the advancements Ubuntu has made with jettisoning the rest of the FOSS community and either going with GNOME Shell or (perhaps) sticking with Gnome 2 for a while, like how some KDE distros held out on upgrading to KDE 4.
Ha! I have been using the KDE avatar of Ubuntu since I can remember using Ubuntu. Nothing is stopping GNOME-sympathisers from doing that.
My wish would have been that Ubuntu should switch to KDE4 as the main desktop and customise off that.
Get used to it boys! Don’t sulk.
Where’s your link to the actual Mccann article- what, he shared his thoughts with you, but you won’t share it with us
And how’s that Bacon character a developer? What a mess.
Canonical is a company, and they will do what feels right for them. If you want to use it, use it. If not, just don’t.
And why is Gnome so concerned about this, they make the DE and they should not be thinking if Canonical is going to do this and that. They should focus on their so called revolutionary/evolutionary Gnome Shell (which sucks BTW) and make it usable for the users that actually use their DE. It’s really stupid what all the fuss is about, obviously they are pissed off, but hey, it’s not of your business – just make the Gnome shell for your users and they’ll find a way to install it and use it (probably Canonical will put some button – use Gnome Shell as your default workspace or something). Cry babies!
The best response from the gnome community I have seen thus far is from Stormy Peters herself at http://stormyscorner.com/
Of course, she is in a position where diplomacy is an absolute must, however there is great merit in what she says. Personally I think the best way forwards from here (on a non-technical basic) is to make sure we criticise ideas, not people. The tone is as important as the content when sudden and unexpected change happens.
As the resident Apple fan-boy here, I’d just like to point out one little issue :
“of the recent OS X Tiger announcement.” — Is it a typo? It should be “Lion” — although if he said Tiger, that’s funny. I’m not surprised a Linux guru isn’t up on OS X.
In my experience over the years with Linux and — Ubuntu in general — I always favored KDE over GNOME. The menu bar always seemed superfluous because — unlike OS X — it never changed with the application you were using, so it was just as well if everything on the top menu bar was on a bottom task bar. But to be fair, Ubuntu felt the most “united” (no pun here) running GNOME, and what I’ve seen with Unity seems like a departure from something that people are comfortable with, and arguably, usability.
It seems like an experiment.
If Shuttleworth really is looking to steal a page from the Apple playbook, he shouldn’t be going with the layout in Unity at all. What makes the Apple UI great is that each iteration is a variation on a theme with refinements, but not an overhaul that leaves users guessing where their familiar things once lived. That doesn’t mean Shuttleworth has to go with GNOME, but the Ubunutu Desktop should still feel like the “home” it has been for so many people in so many versions.
I realize there’s more to this war than the “look and feel” argument, but if you make your user comfortable, the rest will follow.
“…has a lot to do with Mark’s jealousy of the recent OS X Tiger announcement.”
Where has Mark stated his jealousy for OS X? I would like to see the source cited/reference for this?
One more issue. Jono Bacon is not an Ubuntu Developer.
As of September 4, 2006, he works for Canonical Ltd. as the Ubuntu Community Manager.[1]
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jono_Bacon
officer naughty: we corresponded via email; none of these remarks were published elsewhere. I’ll take a screenshot of my inbox if there are any suspicions
You’re right on Bacon: I should have said “Canonical representative” rather than “Ubuntu developer.” Hopefully the sense still came through that he was speaking on Ubuntu/Canonical’s behalf.
Dave: the Tiger oversight is Jon’s, but I have to admit that I didn’t catch it either.
It’s certainly fair to say that Unity is a major experiment in usability, but that’s equally true of GNOME Shell–meaning that either way, Ubuntu, like other Linux distributions that use GNOME, would sooner or later have to face pushing out a radically new interface, unless it abandoned GNOME altogether in favor of KDE, etc. This is to say that the issue here, at least for the time being, isn’t about usability as much as how closely Ubuntu wants to be associated with and dependent upon GNOME, and vice-versa.
I’ve always had my doubts about how well normal users–rather than geeky developers–will adjust to such a radical departure from the traditional desktop. But since both Unity and Gnome Shell have yet to hit many end-users, it’s hard to know how they’ll react.
Gnome shell is better, hands down. Although I don’t like their current blueprints as it makes it look like unity way too much, and nothing like it does currently
I just don’t like unity, period. A dock that you cant move that takes up screen space? That you cant make autohide? Uh what? Even m$ lets you hide and move their start bar….
And thats just one of my issue with it…
I think this is a silly exchange of words though, saying that mark is jealous of jobs was unnecessary and made him seem like the jealous/bitter one…
@cool — Many in the open source community have turned on Novell. That Novell controls GNOME is the reason that many, self included, are turning away from any thing Novell. If that means GNOME, so be it.
IMO, Novell at this point is taking direction from Microsoft to do whatever it has to do to subvert open source, particularly GTK and other related development toolkits. Hence: Mono.
Since a change in leadership within Canonical has dumped the most vociferous advocates of Mono infected software, I’ve forestalled my movement away from GNOME and GTK waiting for hints at what is to come. GTK has declared that Mono will not be part of GTK, even though Glade is already infected with Mono via some command line utilities, I’m sure they’ll get that fixed soon enough. Already some bad decisions related to the Mono infection have been reversed. It is only a matter of time before the last of the Mono infected parts will not even appear in the Ubuntu repositories, let alone as default packages.
Now if the get rid of Evolution completely, I’ll be convinced that Canonical is on the right track.
Well, I don
Well, I don’t care about who’s pissed at who, but I’ve tried Ubuntu NE and Unity sucks big time in (lack of) usability and (even bigger lack of) flexibility. If they embrace the beast as it is now for 11.04, I don’t think I’d stick to standard Ubuntu distribution.
I suspect much of the traffic away from Gnome is because of the apparent Mono-love going on. Nobody want mono, especially with Microsoft running around suing any and everyone.
I was a bit worried about mono before but now after Microsofts rampage against hw manufacturers its chrystal clear, dont use Microsofts tech in any way, shape or form.
I dont’t understand the fuss about this? Why would anyone but its users care about what kind of desktop Ubuntu uses?
There are many desktops to choose between like KDE, Xfce, lxde, etc. One more couldn’t harm… At the moment i do not like Unity that much, but it is still a young toy. Lets see how it shapes up for U.11.04
Why doesn’t Ubuntu create gnome derivate Gubuntu — much like Kubutnu?
The gnome project has been under some pressure lately, because of delays and doubts about gnome shell, (eventual) success of KDE 4.x combined with Nokia opening up and pushing Qt and now Ubuntu. I hope they pull a KDE style success with gnome shell. Luckily, there will always be space for multple DEs, otherwise, in the worst case scenario, this might begin to look like Blu-ray v/s HD DVD.
yeah. Unity really sucks….. i’m gob smacked as to why the hell they would include this rubbish in 10.10 netbook…. especially on a final release…. So i’m thinking… if they did such a poor job with unity so far… I wonder if they will do such a poor job with the unity varient they are making default in Ubuntu 11.04. It wouldn’t suprise me if they rush and push it on the next cycle when it is still not ready…..
They should of used the Meego IU. It’s a hell of alot more stable, fast, useable and increases even MORE vertical space….
I will stick default Gnome now and in the future… atleast they are capable of creating Stable, useable software unlike Canonical
I can’t stand Gnome, never could. I dislike MSMono even more. Not sorry to see it go. I have no idea whether “Unity” will work out. Since I have never liked or used Gnome its no big deal to me.
Like several have already mentioned there are many alternatives available for desktops with Linux. Even if this doesn’t work out too well for Ubuntu there will still be plenty of choice…..in the Linux world.
I’m uncomfortable with some of the diction being used such as “prodigal son”. Perhaps its not excessive, but it does convey a sentiment that Ubuntu is obligated to use the GNOME interface and is being disrespectful by developing its own. Not even a full week ago the complaint was that Ubuntu WAS using the GNOME interface without contributing enough to it. This contrast does not seem reasonable to me.
In a separate concern, it is said that Ubuntu started developing Unity in the spring and just released it with 10.10; however, I remember seeing earlier forms of Unity since 9.04. I think that’s not long after GNOME started working on Shell, so it’s not obvious who is borrowing ideas from whom. Not that I would care. In free software I expect that the best ideas get adopted by different communities with similar (not identical) purposes. If Ubuntu wants to take Unity in a different direction from GNOME, I don’t see a problem with that. Perhaps one day they will converge with the best that each has to offer.
What I’m getting after here is that the politics and resentment is unbecoming of the free software community. We’re not actually competing against each other.
I am so happy with Fedora.
Ubuntu seems like a lost child looking for a home…
Knock knock, will you love me? No?
Knock knock, will YOU love me? No?
Knock Knock, WILL YOU LOVE ME!? PLEASE!
I dont know what is up with you ppl. When 11.04 comes out and when you try it then judge!!! On keynotes on UDS Mark said what is wrong with unity and what they will fix , he is not trying to hide anything. I think they will make good looking desktop .. Beside they will still use gnome but not gnome shell, only the looks will be different…
Seriously if they need to chose between Unity and gnome shell i guess they made a right chois. So stop complaining and enjoy 10.10 till next relese , let them do their work… im sure we will use unity just as we use gnome right now…
Ubuntu has been moving away from gnome for two years? More like Gnome has been shooting down Ubuntu, and ignoring serious usability issues in Gnome shell for two years. In fact Unity had its start as UNR before there was code for the shell. Ubuntu graciously moved the platform to mutter to try and align with Gnome, but still they were shut out. Now Ubuntu has seen the light, Gnome isn’t interested in outside influence. (apart from the delay in the shell’s release so they could cherry pick unity and call it their own.) So now they are moving in their own direction, with a proven platform (Compiz) and actually listening to the users. (Re: ops too soon for dash, we’ll put Nautilus back.) And still Gnome thumbs their collective noses at the MOST popular Disto to date… Gnome is lucky mark didn’t just decide to move everything over to QT
I like Gnome. I started with KDE, but Ubuntu turned me on to the usability of Gnome, and KDE4, while impressive in some areas, hasn’t matched Gnome in usability for me.
I don’t even use Unity on my netbook (and most people switch back to Gnome standard as far as I know even on Netbooks), so I’m not sure why Canonical would do this, but as long as it’s possible to still use the standard Gnome, I don’t fault Canonical for attempting to innovate the Desktop.
I just don’t think the Desktop is necessarily the best place for innovation these days, and Gnome is great.
All of this complaining! Why? I’m sure that Gnome-shell will still be available through the app installer. There are plenty of other distributions and desktop environments out there. You’ll note that few major distros actually ship the desktop environment without customization, so Unity should simply be considered a customization of the Gnome desktop for Ubuntu.
If either Ubuntu or Gnome was concerned about usability, functionality, or attractiveness, they’d be taking inspiration from KDE 4.2. They’d be seeking to have applications reworked to be desktop-agnostic (so, for example, Firefox would use KDE file and print dialogs instead of the current, less-functional but Gnome-compliant dialogs). And they’d be working to make other toolkits (e.g., xforms, qt, tk) equal peers in the environment. They aren’t. They probably haven’t even considered any of these things.
So as long as Gnome-shell is a couple of clicks away, don’t whine because it isn’t the default in Ubuntu. Continue to improve it so that all distributions have the option to utilize it.
It’s true that GNOME has neglected pretty elementary usability problems for a very long time – their experiments with spatial file management and desktop icon layout comes to mind. How about getting a list of recently opened directories used by applications – far more useful than seeing a disorganized list of 100 file names recently used
I’ve filed bug reports and even patches – most were ignored completely. To his credit Seif Lotfy had a patch for GAJ to display recently used directories ready within a few days of me suggesting the feature.
I’ve tried both the new GNOME shell and the 10.10 Unity. Both are based on Mutter, which need to be restarted every hour or so because the screen becomes corrupted. The new 11.04 Unity will be based on Compiz, which works much better here, so that’s a definite plus.
So I’l be keeping an eye on both projects and enjoy the fruits of a little competitive spirit. So far Unity, even at this early stage, is much more promising.
Ubuntu – going with Unity (WTF?)
Kubuntu – KDE
Xubuntu – Xfce
Lubuntu – Lxde (I think?)
Now we’ll likely see Gubuntu – Gnome.
Also, don’t forget about Debian. Kicking Ubuntu to the curb is always one of your options.
Gnome, KDE, Compiz, etc they all suck in the long run, especially when you need external apps like Opera, Firefox, Openoffice, RealVNC, VLC and others. These desktop environments all take pride going their own way but they’re doing half of the job, all so bad for the end-user.
It’s a f***ing nightmare to see that KDE or Gnome is held back by strange Xorg decisions, all on top of the fact that the kernel itself is 99% server oriented and you can’t play an mp3 file without hick-ups in it.
SMACK JON MCCANN AND GNOME
Smack John McCann and Gnome. What a joke Gnome is after 10+ years of development.
Gnome is a retarded and dumb desktop that is broken by design. It’s a Microsoft-infiltrated whore project.
“Standing on the shoulders of giants”? Yeah, right. With less than 1% market share, Gnome is nothing and going nowhere.
Maybe Miguel de Icaza can help them fix their broken and retarded desktop?
Maybe if they add some Silverlight and C# and blur the fonts more it will be Gnome 3.0?
It’s about time Ubuntu FORKS GNOME 100%.
Idiots
Ubuntu is still using Gnome
Unity is just a shell for gnome and not a DE ok
As someone who has a very heavily modified Ubuntu install, I’ve played with just about every DE out there. (Mixing and matching parts.) I’d say the defining measure in what DE you using is the the session manager. Its what configures the backend that you chosen desktop configuration is going to talk to. Everything else can be swapped out
Everybody’s panties seemed to be tied in a wad. Realize that if you like Gnome, Mark S said that it would be 2 clicks to Gnome. The way I look at it, there will be another choice for personalizing your desktop, and you do not have to stick with Unity if you do not want it.
I like when my panties bunch.
“they aren’t forking the project. They’ll still be using a lot of GNOME technologies.”
Stormy Peters – Executive director of the GNOME Foundation – http://stormyscorner.com/2010/10/whats-next-in-gnomes-future.html
That link is funny I quote, “We also expected Canonical to push for any different user interfaces they wanted within our community, not to design them and announce them independently”
I seem to remember Canonical trying to do just that and being shot down at every turn.
Why doesn’t Canonical just use Xfce. It works perfectly fine. I don’t like Unity or the GNOME Shell interface design. Xfce is the best GUI available in my opinion.
Always with the politics.
I have to say I agree with the “crybaby” comments… Canonical can do what they want, and this is Linux after all…you can use whatever desktop environment you want to, be it Gnome, KDE, Openbox, Fluxbox, XFCE, LX…lubuntu…what’s that acronym anyway? That’s the beauty and curse of Linux–more choice than we’ll ever know what to do with. If Gnome is really doing great things, people will use it no matter what Ubuntu decides to ship with.
Although Unity sucks, but it’s still infinite times better than gnome shell. Calm down, gnome guys: it’s your fault why ubuntu switching to Unity, not Shuttleworth’s one. If you were smart enough to understand things that work for smartphones/tablets won’t work for large screens you wouldn’t do such a shit like your clunky GS.
All I know is that my Ubuntu 10 is the most beautiful and usable version of Linux (or any OS) that I’ve ever used…and the first thing that got me to switch to Gnome after 10 years on KDE. Perhaps Gnome deserves most of the credit, but Ubuntu gets the credit from me because a vanilla Gnome desktop looks like it’s from the Windows 95 generation. To make matters worse, Gnome Shell looks as bad as KDE 4, so I’m hoping Unity will be the winner. If they all suck, I’m sticking with Ubuntu 10 for a long time.
Maybe ut would have been better to base Unity on E17 instead of Gnome!?
Time to install debian
Can I just suggest that the only rational explanation for how horrible Unity and Gnome 3 are is that Microsoft or other terrified proprietary competitors have planted moles on the dev team to destroy this once awesome interface and cause the slow death and abandonment of Ubuntu. Nothing less could explain this unspeakably horrible trainwreck of an “upgrade” to such a previously awesome system. I am being completely serious here- nothing this unbelievably horrible has a benign origin- this is enemy action.
I don’t get the hatred toward the new DEs…I happen to like them both. I really would like to see them merged, and have options for whatever individual features differentiate them… I use the scale plugin to get the same window-picking action as Gnome, which I really like… The main reason I don’t use Gnome more is that the animation is choppy. At least it will work with fglrx now.
But to be honest, they’re both a little rough around the edges. I’ll really be looking forward to the polish we’re being promised in Ubuntu 12.04. I installed Linux on a friend’s computer, and I set him up with Mint, which wisely decided to stick with Gnome 2 for the time being. I like the new DEs, but I also like the bleeding edge–breaking my system and then trying to fix it is what makes Linux fun. But I don’t think I’d be eager to push either Unity or Gnome 3 on someone who’s new to Linux at this point.
(I also made post 35.) I am a new fan of Unity. It actually works very well. The keyboard shortcuts make everything so easy and so fast. The biggest issue with Linux based OS’ making head way is the learning curve from Windows. NOW there is a learning curve going from the same OS to its upgraded one. If you really like Ubuntu, deal with Unity and learn it. I played around for a few days and understand the changes and they are for the better.